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Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder (Read 9129 times)

Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 835 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Nov 4^th, 2015 at 9:07am	Print Post
	I have heard it works as well as 38-55. Could never get my 32-40 to be reliable with BP, so wondering if any 33 caliber shooters out there that have been successful. Thanks, Pete

	May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
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SSShooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2938 Location: Southern NJ Joined: Aug 1^st, 2010	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #1 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 3:59pm	Print Post
	You might try a duplex load (that is my plan). Pope, Hudson & Ross (am guessing many others) used 3gr of smokeless DuPont No. 1 in their loads just after the turn of the last century.

	Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #2 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 8:01pm	Print Post
	I shot mine that way a little. It shot better muzzleloaded than breech seated. The rifle doesn't take fixed ammo as the bullet diameter is the same as the OD of the case.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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FITZ Oldtimer Offline REGARDS Posts: 917 Location: MASSACHUSETTS Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #3 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 8:45pm	Print Post
	I have a Hartford Pope in 38-55 full outfit. Muzzle Load and or Breech seat. I have fired it with Duplex loads. In fact shot the two highest scores I have ever fired Muzzle loading. Load was 3.5 Gr of 4759, and case full of Elephant Fg. Don't remember the actual weight right now. The loads were thrown from a Pope measure. I have once fired it with straight black, real pain. Ended up Muzzle loading to overcome the fouling and then it settled down. I also have Schoyen .33-40 Muzzle loading Rifle. It just swallows every load I tried and shot super. Straight Black, Duplex Black, smokeless, either breech seated or muzzle loaded did not seem to make a difference. Although Muzzle Loading is not supposed to work well with Smokeless this rifle did not know that. Just swallowed any .33 Cal. bullet and shot them all well. I plan some day to try it with 4227 as a primer as the 4759 takes up a lot of space in the priming section. HTH Regards, FITZ.

	FITZ
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FITZ Oldtimer Offline REGARDS Posts: 917 Location: MASSACHUSETTS Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #4 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	As to shooting Black in a 32-40 I have also had trouble with fouling. If you watch shooters with Black in 32-40 you will see a lot of them wiping between shots. It has been my observation that as the hole through the barrel gets smaller the fowling issues pile up. I think the bigger Bore rifles suck the fowling out of the barrel better. I have shot a Sharps .45 X2 7/8" with 100 grs of Elephant Fg and the Bore looked clean. I use Pope Lube formulae Lube for all my shooting it works well with smokeless and Black or Duplex. Well all for now. Regards, FITZ.

	FITZ
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #5 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 9:06pm	Print Post
	I had a little different results with my Stevens Pope barrel. The Schoyen bullet that came with it is a triffle too small to shoot well breech seated. My Hoch Pope style bullet that shoots good BS is too big to force down the false muzzle to muzzle load. It definitely shot best ML with BP and best BS with smokeless.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #6 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 2:24am	Print Post
	I'm currently messing around with my 32-20 and BP, and yes, even this little cartridge needs cleaning between shots. Getting a consistent bore condition for every shot is the key. However, it does show a lot of promise. This is with fixed and what I call semi-breech seated loads (bullet seated by the charged case). I'll give breech-seated a try shortly, with the bullet 1/8 inch in front of the case. Wiping with 2 moist patches and 1 dry.
	« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2015 at 2:34am by MartiniBelgian »

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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #7 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 4:02am	Print Post
	gert, it might also be worth trying 1/16 in front of the case. it seems to be a better measurement with local 38/55 rifles. what is the transition/leade style of the 30/20 chamber? keep safe, bruce.

	ventum est amicus meus
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #8 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:15am	Print Post
	Bruce, I'm using the Pope 308403 bullet, and the throat is standard - but that's what the Pope bullet was made for. At any rate, seating it just kissing the case mouth requires barely any resistance. We'll see what is required for seating it out a bit more... I'm working with a plugged case, so it isn't really easy to change seating depth between shots. Suffice to say that I'm just looking for the 'tweak'that will bring everything together with this bullet. Last outing I shot 3 ragged holes, but I need a single ragged hole... Taking into consideration bore condition, that's better than I had hoped.
	« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:25am by MartiniBelgian »

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #9 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:34am	Print Post
	The most successful gentleman I know who used black in a 32-40 used Fisher cleaner to wipe the bore and a clean patch to follow between shots. It took longer but he shot much better. 40 Rod


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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #10 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 4:12pm	Print Post
	gert, nothing ventured, nothing gained. keep on having fun bruce.

	ventum est amicus meus
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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1802 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #11 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:23pm	Print Post
	gert, So happy to see your positive remark about the 308403 Pope bullet. Esp in your 30-20. Just acquired an Ideal 308403 mold and it looks to be in Very good condition. Looking forward to casting in next couple days. I have several 30 cal rifles to try it in. beltfed/arnie


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #12 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:47am	Print Post
	Tried yesterday some more loads, didn't find the 'happy' tweak yet. And the plugged case I wanted to use to seat the bullet 1/8 ahead didn't really work -then again, I didn't check it in the chamber before trying to use it... Could be my insert is a bit too big. Back to the drawing board. Then again, if it were easy, it wouldn't be so much fun!


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #13 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:08am	Print Post
	What are you calling a Fisher cleaner 40 Rod? A bore brush with a wiper disc behind it?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Pope 33-40..33-47 with black Powder Reply #14 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 8:44am	Print Post
	That is what the Fisher cleaner was a soft bore brush with a couple of rubber discs behind to squeegee out the water. 40 Rod


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