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bmdrake71
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50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Oct 30th, 2015 at 12:38pm
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Has anyone reloaded their 50-70 with the Hornady sabots and a 200gr or 230gr 45 caliber bullet?  I'm looking at building a light plinker for the range (50yds to start) once I have the rifle assembled from the parts.
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2015 at 1:42pm by »  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #1 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:46pm
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Have not done that, but, I did shoot a bunch of light loads made as follows. All shot "beer can" sized groups at about 50M and did not lead bore.

¤30-60 grains of 2F black powder or same volume of 777Fg in primed case
¤54 caliber soft fiber wad, lubed & seated on powder. Separate lubed wad from powder using a non-lubed wad if not going to shoot almost immediately (to stop/slow lube getting into powder).
¤54 calib pure lead ball forced into case and pushed down onto wad -- this will create a band of 0,515" or so around ball, which should be good fit to groove-to-groove of original 50/70s and 12,7X44Rs.

Also works well with 12,7X44R rollers and same caliber barrel of Husqvarna, etc. kombi guns.

Grisen
  
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bmdrake71
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 10:03am
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Thank You!

I was wondering how to get around to using lighter than 70gr loads as well with Pyrodex and Triple 7 and you mentioned that in your post as well with the wadding.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:40pm
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Additional wadding is not the only workable option, although that is a time honored method. With "straight-walled" cases, many shooters load lighter loads with the bullet/ball entirely inside the case. This is pretty safe with BP, Pyrodex and 777FFg, but, be very careful with nitro/smokeless powders, especially with fast-burning "pistol powders", because you can quickly end up with chamber pressures higher than the rifle is designed for. Unless you know for sure what you are doing, I would stay with BP, Pyrodex, 777FFg, etc.

I much prefer to load bullets entirely inside longer cases than to load them into shorter cases because the longer case fits the chamber for normal full length, as the gun was designed for. This especialy for rifles.

Grisen
  
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bmdrake71
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2015 at 11:39am
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I've made my first loads for the trapdoor last night.  10 Starline brass cartridges loaded with 42gr of Pyrodex to replicate the 50-70 carbine loads over a 200gr 45caliber SWC in a 20gr sabot.  I've pressed the sabot down over the powder and compressed it to ensure I get good ignition.  I normally load the same saboted bullet over 60gr of Pyrodex in my modern inline muzzleloader so I'm hoping this will be an easy on the shoulder 50-100 yard plinker.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2015 at 12:20pm
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Are you sure that a sabot will clear the throat and leade of a chamber without snagging up on something? Maybe no problem, but it might be worth thinking about first. Hope this gets to ya in time.
  
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bmdrake71
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #6 - Nov 12th, 2015 at 10:00am
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And why should the sabot have any problems in the throat?  I've fired sabots in other cartridges with no problems before and the chambering of this trapdoor is not rough or jagged to tear a sabot petal off.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2015 at 1:19pm
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I was just suggesting that you might check it out- just in case. Don't think I was trying to say it wouldn't work. Just urging a critical assessment of fit for all the components. The sabots for muzzleloaders don't have to negotiate the beginning of rifling in the barrel, they are already placed in it. Just a thought.                   Have fun.
  
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bmdrake71
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #8 - Nov 13th, 2015 at 8:34am
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I'm not the first to shoot saboted cartridges from rifles.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2015 at 12:32pm
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No, I guess you aren't the first. I hope you let us hear the results.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #10 - Nov 13th, 2015 at 1:35pm
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I'm not the first to shoot saboted cartridges from rifles.


I think calledflyer's point is that you are pushing the sabot down into the case so it will have to bridge the gap from the csae mouth to the rifling that is not an issue with conventionally loaded sabots. I suspect accuracy will be poor and probably not wothwhile in terms of cost to value added.

FWIW 10 years or so back I was playing with 45-70 Gallery loads. I recreated the old Gallery loads using rounds balls, wads and BP. Never got much in the way of accuracy so no benefir as far as practice was realised. If the loads aren't accurate why waste the loading materials and time?

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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bmdrake71
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:02am
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First shots out this weekend were at 50 yards.  The sabots came off with no problems and landed at about 25 yards away.

The group is nothing to praise about as it was my first 5 shots since I put all the parts together but I think once I get this horribly long trigger pull issue fixed the groups will get better.  The group of 5 landed at the top of my 2'x3' target at about a foot above my bullseye target so I'm thinking those stock sights are regulated for much longer distances  Grin  The group was horizontally spread at about 5" but only a 2" in height.  That to me, means that my trigger pull was erratic and I could use some sharpening up for the next time this Trapdoor comes to the range.

The plus is that the 200gr Semi-wadcutter 45ACP bullets cut very nice sharp holes in the target board.  No tipping or instability noted.  The sabots showed engraving from the rifling and I think I've found my base load to build off as the recoil of these "carbine" loads was lower than what I would expect from a big cartridge like this.

Cleanup was pretty easy as well.  The sabots meant no excess lube carbon to deal with and the residue of the pyrodex was easily flushed out of the barrel with some hot water and some scrubbing.   

I then re-oiled all the metal parts and the barrel and reassembled the rifle.  Is it overkill to disassemble the breechblock for a water rinse and clean it as well when shooting Pyrodex in a TD?  I don't want to score up the breechblock's face with any residual powder rust from shooting.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: 50-70 with muzzleloading sabots
Reply #12 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:53am
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So, how has the load development progressed? Was the sabot grouping on the ground any smaller than the group on the target? I have not real experince with sabots but my experinece with blue plastic is that the only consistancy is that it is inconsistant...

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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