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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity (Read 11340 times)
John Boy
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Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Oct 27th, 2015 at 9:12pm
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Interesting!
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Question: Why is there no maximum pressure listed in any of the standard tables for 44-40 including SAMMI?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #1 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 10:32pm
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Quickload does this as a matter of course.  But it's not free.
  

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KenHo
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #2 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 6:34pm
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That is a neat spreadsheet!  Looks like you just relabel a column to what round you wish to test, - it seems to have most calibers, just remove the ".45 ACP" and make it ".45 caliber" column, then you could us it for any round you wish in .45 caliber by changing the barrel length, bullet weight, barrel pressure, or velocity.  You can add any caliber you wish to the SAAMI sheet.   

"IF" I understand this, say you wish to see about 45-70 - then use the 45 caliber column.  Plug in your desired bullet weight and barrel length.  Say, 500 grain with 30 inch barrel.  Now, most of us don't have a way to measure pressure (some do), so we measure velocity and find we get 1000 fps (light load).  The results show we only have 8,338 PSI chamber pressure.

Now, I have a question about that - does that hold valid with BP as well as smokeless?  What about a fast burning pistol powder in that big brass vs a slow burning smokeless powder?

They indicate that bullet velocity is a direct result of chamber pressure- if so, then it's a VERY valid spreadsheet and I'm VERY thankful for the link.

Looking for comments.

Ken H>

  

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oneatatime
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #3 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 12:42am
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Ken, I don't think you'll find that velocity is directly related to chamber pressure. Look in any loading manual and you'll see that different powders give different velocities at the same pressure or even higher velocities at lower pressure.
  
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RoyB
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #4 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 10:24am
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This is great. Thank you.

Ken, wouldn't a certain diameter projectile, in a certain length barrel need a certain amount of pressure to achieve a certain velocity.

You could substitute any parameter for X and it would give you the number

I used the 357 mag area to figure out pressure for a 38-55, 255g bullet, 30" barrel, .375 diameter at 1200fps 

It returned 8,857 psi

Seems low?

  

Roy B
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KenHo
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #5 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 10:29am
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Thanks for the comment - I'd always felt velocity was on "generally" a result of chamber pressure.  Something that had to be measured rather than calculated.

BUT - I've heard a good bit about Quickload program, does the type of powder factor into the equation with Quickload?

Ken H.
  

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RoyB
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 10:42am
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You would think the type of powder SHOULD factor in. But pressure is pressue...the only variable will be "rise time"...This is where it gets tricky because few documents get into this area.

For example...Everyone is screaming about Trail Boss...Low pressure but incredibly fast pressure spike. I'm convinced that a slower pressure spike is better for our older firearms than a real fast spike. Black powder can generate lots of pressure, but my understanding (and I may be wrong..Please correct me) is it spikes much slower...this is strange because BP is an explosive and you'd think that characteristic would make it spike like crazy. But as we all know BP is more of a "shove" than a "smack"......
I'd like to learn more about all this pressure stuff. 
If I could find a Oehler Ballistic Lab for a reasonable price (or borrow / rent one) I'd like to take a week and sort out all these smokeless VS BP loads we are all screwing around with.
  

Roy B
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KenHo
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 11:19am
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I know what you mean about wishing to test pressures.  Here is something I've drooled over for a while, and there's only 500 reasons I don't have one - I could handle the other 100 reasons {g}

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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #8 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 11:47am
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Maybe Santa will be good to me this year! I want one of those!!!
  

Roy B
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 12:18pm
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Something that can particully effect the 38/55 (and other 38's as well) is the bore diameter. There is a fairly large variance in that caliber. They can run from .374 to over .382. That's almost as much difference as a 30 to 32 caliber. 32 cal (excluding the 32 rf and 32/20) can run from .318 to at least .323.

More minor differences can occur with the difference in rifling pattern. Even land and grooves will give higher velocity and pressure than a narrow land 3 or 4 groove rifle barrels.

Just in 30 cal, QL has at least 4 different bore areas (sq in) for 30 cal barrels. Though they are minor, it will still effect the pressure and velocity.

Frank
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 12:34pm
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Gee, if it was just a matter of max pressure wouldn't we all be using Bullseye? A kick may give you a start but a shove will keep you moving. The burning rate/pressure combo is the key.
  
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #11 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 12:39pm
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Correct!  It's not a matter of just max pressure...my point is it is a combination of everything that allows a firearm to move a projectile without blowing up!
  

Roy B
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #12 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 2:36pm
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I should drag out my old Powley computer and check out my latest loadings. Have not done it for yrs, but I recall, when designing "wildcats" that the Powley predictions were rather close to my actual results across my Oehler 33.
Its based on case capacity/expansion ratio, etc
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #13 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 3:23pm
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Arnie, you've got Oehler 33 system?  WOW!!!  I looked online this morning at one of those setups and they are NICE - chrono and pressure testing as a system.  I've VERY envious of you.

In your testing did you ever get a chance to compare a fast smokeless powder vs a slow smokeless powder when both were loaded to give same velocity with same bullet?

How about a BP cartridge loaded with BP vs smokeless with same bullet/velocity to compare chamber pressures?

Oh so many questions and so little time to test them {g}

Ken H>

  

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oneatatime
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Re: Calculating Barrel Pressure & Projectile Velocity
Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 4:35pm
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Ken, here's an example for the 7.62x39 with a 150 grain Sierra from the Accurate manual max velocity and pressure:
By Pressure: (LT-32 41,434 2056fps) (2015 41,736 1950fps) (Ramshot 48,241 2161fps) (2200 48,698 2291fps) (5744 50,002 2176fps) (1680 51,402 2109fps)
It shows that pressure and velocity don't necessarily correlate and that there is an optimum powder to produce the highest velocity with a not excessive pressure. I'm glad someone brought up the old Powley Computer. That uses the factors that influence arriving at the optimum load and it works quite well in determining the best powder with the amount to be used, the pressure generated and the velocity achieved.
  
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