Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ? (Read 31672 times)
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 583
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:12pm
Print Post  
A year and a half ago I bought a rifle from a friend and collector.  This Remington Rolling Block is not like any others I have seen.  My friend owned it for 15 years until he made a comment that led to a deal.  I bought the rifle for the rifle and not the story, but there are quite a few things that lead me to believe that this "could be" Col John Bodine's rifle used at the 1875 match at Dollymount, Ireland.

A few standard details.  This rifle is not serial numbered.  The barrel is 34" long with an excellent bore and is chambered in .44-77 Sharps.  The rifle has a long range tang sight.  The rifle originally had a bead front sight but the previous owner replaced it with a windgauge front sight.  It has a checkered horn shotgun-style buttplate, horn forend tip and a block of horn inlet into the top of the comb for a rear sight base.  The barrel is browned, not blued.  The top of the receiver has a raised oval with several patent dates.  "L.L. Hepburn" is stamped several times under the forearm.

My friend made a loose connection when looking at Harper's Weekly covering the Creedmoor Match of 1874 when the U.S. team, including Hepburn and Bodine, won against the Irish. The woodcut illustrations taken from photographs showed the team and its rifles.  Bodine held a standard Remington Creedmoor.

In the next year, the Irish invited the Americans to a rematch in Ireland.  Bodine was on the team again, but Hepburn was not.  The pictures following the match were in Harper's Weekly (July 10,1875) of the American Team after having won against the Irish.  The woodcut drawing shows Bodine using a rolling block rifle with a carved stock (pistol grip area) snd black ipped forearm.  The rifle in the drawing does not have a windgauge sight either.

  • Bodine's Remington rifle show in Harper's woodcut matches this rifle in the details of the barrel, stock carving and black forend tip.  the other Remington shooters on the team are clearly shown with standard Remington Creedmoor rifles.

  • We know that Hepburn supervised the making of the Remington rifles for the US team.

  • Hepburn's stamp is under the forearm in several places.  There is no serial- or assembly number

  • Bodine believed that full round barrels were more accurate and made this point in a letter to Sharps Rifle Co on May 15th, 1877 (printed in Frank Sellers book)


... more ...
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:25pm by Joe Do... »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 583
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #1 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:20pm
Print Post  
  • The specially shaped receiver and company marking location are more of an English style.  Many of the English and Irish shooters used e back position, of which Bodine did not, and would explain the inset (but unused) sight seat on the heel of the stock


Yes ... I know all of the above is very loose but that 1875 team picture showing two obvious conventional Remington Creedmoor rifles and the third clearly different rifle in Col John Bodine's hands.

... open to thought, opinions and even polite criticism ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 583
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #2 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:23pm
Print Post  
more pics ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 15994
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #3 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:32pm
Print Post  
Joe, is it just my imagination, or do I see two plugged holes in the top of the stock where the sight base recess is? If it was not used, then why would the holes be plugged?
Certainly a gorgeous gun, and one I'd be proud to own!
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 583
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #4 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 8:45pm
Print Post  
Thank you MarlinGuy ... it's amazing the things you can pick out from a photo that I miss with the naked eye.  Looking at the rifle, they look like two impressions but not plugged holes.  Good point ... thanks again ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
shovel80
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 896
Location: Sonora,CA
Joined: Jun 6th, 2011
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 9:13pm
Print Post  
Wow, that's really a Nice Rolling Block!
Never have seen a butt stock done quite like that before!

Terry
  

ASSRA Member # 11021
Back to top
IP Logged
 
oodmoff
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 276
Location: colorado springs
Joined: Jan 12th, 2009
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #6 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 10:11pm
Print Post  
Simply beautiful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
harry_eales
Ex Member


Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #7 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 3:45am
Print Post  
Hello Joe,
Have you tried weighing the rifle? According to the Creedmoor Rules it should weigh no more than 10 pounds., including sights. Otherwise I would say the likelihood is that it was Col. Bodine's or another Creedmoor Team member supported by Remington. Especially as L.L. Hepburn was in charge of Remington's custom target rifle shop at that time.
 
The only item that may not be correct as far as I can see is the rear sight staff which although high enough, has no fine adjustment screw, an item that was vital for very accurate Long Range Target work. This sight could of course be a later addition, it is more useful for hunting because it can be rapidly adjusted than a target sight fitted with a very slow screw adjustment. Speed of sight adjustment isn't vital on the target range. 

It's a pity there are no Remington Factory Records for these rifles, but given the huge numbers of Rolling Block Rifles made it would have been a thankless task book keeping.

Regarding the rear stock heel mounted sight base. The rifle is likely to have been made with the base fitted at the factory to ensure perfect fit and squareness. It's simple enough to remove two screws and simply plug their holes if the sight is not required. Alternately if these are just impressions in the wood they could act as a guide to drilling pilot holes for the screws should the sight base be fitted later.

Harry
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:08pm by »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #8 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 9:41am
Print Post  
my sugestion would be to get ahold of Dick Binger at Stotts Creek Armory. He may have some Knowledge on Bodine's rifle

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #9 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 5:37pm
Print Post  
Setting up the proper location and slant for the heel sight at the factory would be important of a long target rifle.  It is not something you can just screw on the end of the stock and start shooting.  That location and getting it to track with bullet without using up all the windage on the front site doesn't just happen  by accident.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smoke
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 689
Location: San Diego
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #10 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 1:39am
Print Post  
Would really appreciate seeing a full length picture of this one.

Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rustyrelx
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 474
Location: Wallace Idaho
Joined: Oct 9th, 2007
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #11 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 12:12pm
Print Post  
That is a very unique rifle. I will follow this thread as I am very interested in Creedmore rifles.
  Don
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 583
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #12 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 7:08pm
Print Post  
a few more pics by request ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patriot
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 34
Joined: Mar 29th, 2015
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #13 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 8:55pm
Print Post  
Very cool!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3537
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #14 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 10:50pm
Print Post  
I couldn't begin to say who owned that back in the day, but he must have been a very proud owner, as must you be. I particularly like the proportion of the forestock on that one. Probably that way for a reason, but it just looks right. Now, I must ask- have you fired it at all?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Send TopicPrint