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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ? (Read 32123 times)
Smoke
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #15 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 11:19pm
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Another person you might contact regarding the provenance of this rifle is Ron Peterson, of Peterson Guns in Phoenix.  He own's a couple of documented rifles from the early International Creedmoor matches and might be able to shed some light on yours.

And thank you for those photos.  They're a real treat.
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oneatatime
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #16 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 12:10am
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That's Ron Peterson Guns in Albuquerque;-)
  
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #17 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 2:15am
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Doh!

Thanks
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #18 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 11:01am
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Joe,
I can understand how you may think that the rifle shown could have been Bodine's.  I have that woodcut from "Harper's Weekly" framed and on my wall.  Looking at it, I can see the forend tip that you describe but the pistol grip area is too undefined to show that kind of work.  Also, if you look at the receiver, it shows 3 pins going through it which rollers do not have.  I think perhaps the worker making the woodcut took a few liberties. However, that doesn't mean that your rifle wasn't made for somebody that aspired to make the Creedmoor team or perhaps even Bodine in 1875.  He was known to have owned many rifles.  I'd love to own his 1881 Deeley & Edge Creedmoor rifle.
I found my article written by George Wingate who was Capt of the American team and he describes L.L. Hepburn as making Fulton's rifle and his own for the 1874 matches.  Here is a picture of Fulton's rifle when it sold about 8-9 years ago. I wish it showed the pistol grip to see if it had any elaborate carvings.If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see an actual picture of the team and the rifle Bodine shot in the 1874
matches.  I found Wingate's article to be one of the best descriptions of the 1874 matches.  Good luck in your search.  Bob
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frnkeore
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #19 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 12:13pm
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Some observations between Fultons and this beautiful rifle:

The tang sight bases are very simular and neither appear to have screw adjustment.

In the 1874 team picture, Bodines rifle seems to have a pewter forestock tip.

It also looks like a octagon barrel.

Frank
  

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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #20 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 6:11pm
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Blow the picture in the link up to 400% and note that the rifle Bodine is holding has a roll over cheek piece on a straight shotgun butt stock, a pewter forearm tip and maybe a Beach foresight on a half octagon round barrel .  
The other 3 rifles shown are '74 Sharps in 44-77 Sharps that were made specifically for the Creedmoor Match in addition to Remingtons.  Two round barrels with splinter forearms and the other an octagonal barrel 
Joe, your rifle has no cheek piece, is a perched stock, full round barrel & no picture of the forearm or sight on your rifle provided
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Whether it is a Bodine rifle or not ... it's drop dead gorgeous!

For providence to the rifle, I would suggest you contact the NRA - Instructions in your current NRA Magazine with pictures ... 

NRA
Dope Bag, NRA Publications
11250 Wapples Mill Rd
Fairfax, VA 22030-9400
Must contain the member's code line from an American Rifleman or American Hunter mailing label or membership card with a self addressed stamped legal size envelope 
"Allow 10 weeks for a reply"
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Joe Do...
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #21 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 7:33pm
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John ... The link you listed goes to "page not found".  Can I ask you check it and post again?

Also I added a second group of photos on the first tab on this thread, are you able to view those?

Thank you for your help and patience,
Joe Dobrzynski
  
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John Boy
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #22 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 11:16pm
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It's the same link that Old-Win posted

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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #23 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 1:32am
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Is there any possiblity that it could be Hepburns rifle?

Frank
  

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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #24 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 1:00pm
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Again, I don't know who this lovely critter belonged to, but, regarding the photo of Bodine with the metal-tipped rifle and Hepburn's presence in the photo; Wasn't Hepburn absent from one of the matches? This leaves the possibility that the rifle owned by Joe could have been another gun that was used in another year? No knowledge, just my mind's wandering around.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #25 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 2:09pm
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Joe, bad news. The Creedmoor match rifles were 44-90 not 44-77 per the NRA Museum

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The American competitors used both Sharps and Remington .44 caliber breech-loading single-shot rifles that were loaded with heavy powder charges and heavy paper-patched bullets. The most effective of all long-range target cartridges were the .44-90 Sharps and .44-90 Remington. The .44-90 Remington cartridge was loaded with a 550-grain bullet which had a muzzle velocity of 1250 f.p.s. The .44-90 Sharps cartridge was typically loaded with a 520-gr. bullet capable of 1270 f.p.s. Muzzle energy of both of these rounds was about 1850 ft.-lbs, compared to 1600 ft.-lbs. for the standard .45-70 Government cartridge. Neither cartridge approached the power level of the .44-100 Remington or .45-100 Sharps rounds which delivered over 2,200 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy.

 

The special high-quality Sharps and Remington rifles furnished to the American team were fitted with precision sights. The usual wind-gauge target front sight was mounted in a dovetail cut in the barrel near the muzzle. This assembly provided accurate lateral adjustment of the front sight by means of a screw. Accurate scales were engraved on the front side of the sight assembly so that precise measurements of windage could be made. The sight tube or globe was slotted so that interchangeable sighting inserts could by used to provide optimum sight patterns for various target conditions.

The elaborate aperture rear sights fitted to these rifles were either mounted on the receiver tang or attached to the top of the buttstock forward of the buttplate. The latter sight position was used by some shooters who preferred to lie on their backs and support the rifle muzzle with their knees or feet. The long sight leaves employed on these rear sights pivoted on a fixed base. The shooter aimed through a tiny aperture peephole drilled in the center of the 1-inch diameter sunshade disk. The vertical position of the sighting aperture disk was usually determined by a long slender screw less than 1/8" in diameter, with a 20-pitch thread that permitted very accurate elevation adjustments. These tall rear sights were precision instruments, and often included vernier adjustment scales.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #26 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 4:44pm
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John, they may have loaded them up since they had a long throat but all of the ones I have seen, including the one that fired the winning shot, used a 44-77 case. Here's something: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #27 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 6:55pm
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Roy Marcot's book on Remington Rolling Block Rifles would seem to disagree with the .44-90 being used! On page 135 he states that, "E Remington & Sons decided that their longrange rifles would be chambered for .44-77 Remington centerfire ammunition, which contained a paper patched 400 grain bullet."
  

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John Boy
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #28 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 7:43pm
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Quote:
Careful measurements show that it is chambered for the 44-77 cartridge with a fairly long throat or ball seat.

Man ... this is like chasing a Shadow at midnight!
Sure would like to help Joe determine the providence of his rifle though
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: Could this be Col Bodine's 1875 Creedmoor Rifle ?
Reply #29 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 11:19pm
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I have not shot this rifle nor have I made a chamber cast.  I made the simple assumption that it was chambered in 44-77.  Someone will likely correct me, but I thought that the .44-90 cartridge case is the same as the .44-77 with the bullet seated out a bit further to allow for the extra powder.

The bore diameter at the muzzle measures 0.448" (using pin gauges).  This is exactly the same as my other Remington Creedmoor rifle.  It very well could be .44-90.  There isn't any caliber marking anywhere on the barrel.

Regarding the competition matches, years and shooters.  Both Bodine and Hepburn were on the American Team in 1874 and the photo of Bodine from that Match shows him holding a 'standard' Creedmoor rifle.  Bodine was on the American Team at the Match at Dollymount in 1875, but Hepburn was not.  What I need to find is a photo from the 1875 Match.  This goes back to my original comments regarding the drawing in Haper's Weekly from 1875.
  
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