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rustyrelx
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Remington Rolling Block
Oct 23rd, 2015 at 1:50pm
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Ok this is for all you rolling block fans.

I have a Remington  with tang screw holes at 2 1/8. It numbers at 52xx. I think the standard that I can tell is 1 15/16. Is that maybe for later Rolling Blocks?

Looking at Marcot's book it looks like the earlier Rolling Blocks had a longer base for the tang sight. Obviously difficult to tell from a book.

I'm starting to think Remington made them with 2 different tang sight bases.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Strictly for a commercial unmolested rifle. So now I need a sight base for the 2 1/8.

Thank You   Don   rustyrelx@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:51pm by rustyrelx »  
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BP
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #1 - Oct 23rd, 2015 at 4:20pm
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Looking at Marcot's book, on page 45 you'll see pictures of a Maynard tang sight that is installed on a Rem #1.

I doubt anyone here will claim that Remington once considered the Maynard sight screw spacing to be a Remington factory standard screw spacing for tang sight installations.

There are a number of different tang sights shown installed on various #1 rifles in Marcot's book, plus on page 41 you can see what looks like a shortened tang sight base that was adapted for the installation of that scope made by an unknown manufacturer.
The tang sights shown on page 109, page 163 (though this one may have used the Remington spacing), and on page 229 will raise an eyebrow or two.

As you dig further into the book, you'll see holes all over the place even on the fancy target #1s, indicating that a lot of folks back then used what they had in hand or that was immediately available, or that fit their particular ideas of what would work best.

  

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John Boy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #2 - Oct 23rd, 2015 at 7:44pm
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Firearms manufacturers of the 1800's installed parts from many different vendors.  Examples:
* Ballard used Beach's combo sight as an option
* Ballard used Winchester 1873 butt plate screws
* Wurfflein used Ballard tang sights
And probably the list goes on!
  
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rustyrelx
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #3 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:48pm
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Look we all know any rifle can be "modified"at any time. My query is only about observations. Does the early Remington use a 2 1/8 hole spacing for their early rifles? 
If you look in Marcots book it appears that on the early target rifles the base of the tang sight is longer. Look at the front on the sight base and you will notice that it seems farther forward. The juncture at the front of the buttstock seems to be real close on some of the target bases and farther back on others. Obviously all being made and installed by Remington.

Can anybody with an early target rifle verify my findings?
Hole spacing of 2 1/8 center to center.
  Don
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:56pm by rustyrelx »  
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rustyrelx
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #4 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:52pm
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2 1/8?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #5 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 7:43pm
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Not to my knowledge Don? It's less than 2" at 1.9375" spacing. Uses regular 10-32 NF thread screws. Mine are either this spacing, or not D&T for a tang sight.

PS-Looked it up in Stroebel's Old Gun Sights book, and he has the same 1.9375" spacing listed also.
  

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rustyrelx
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #6 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 12:30pm
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Marlinguy: Yes I have seen that number many times on each and every later rolling block. If you look closely at Marcots book you may see a difference. Maybe???? It appears the front screw is located farther foreward on some. Thats why I am asking about the early rolling blocks. Thanks marlinguy
  
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #7 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 4:47pm
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rustyrelx,

I love suspense, but how about letting us all know which particular pages, photos, and individual rifles in the Marcot book you are actually referring to?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #8 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 5:40pm
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rustyrelx wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 12:30pm:
Marlinguy: Yes I have seen that number many times on each and every later rolling block. If you look closely at Marcots book you may see a difference. Maybe???? It appears the front screw is located farther foreward on some. Thats why I am asking about the early rolling blocks. Thanks marlinguy

Unsure what you're referring to as "early"? When I look in Marcot's book, all the early Rolling Blocks he pictures seem to have built in tang sights (if they have a tang sight) with no screws mounting them.
On page 44 I see one that appears to have an odd spacing, which looks more like Stevens 1.5", and on 45 the Maynard tang sight. P. 54 appears to be std. 1.93" spacing. Pages 123-127 look to be the 1.93" also?
I really only see the two exceptions throughout Marcot's book, besides the early Rollers with built in bases.
  

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MT Chambers
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #9 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 6:00pm
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My orig. Rem. 1 1/2 RB. is def. 2 1/8" and base that fit it was supplied by Baco.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #10 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 10:11pm
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My 1 1/2 isn't D&T, but my #2 and one of my #1 Sporters are. Both are the 1.9375".
  

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rustyrelx
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #11 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 11:53am
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Aha!!!!!! another one,the story thickens, Thank you MT Chambers. What is the serial # range mine is 52XX.

I will get out the Marcot book and look again at the pages. And post them.
Don
  
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #12 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 4:39pm
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Have two sporting #1s. Neither is drilled and tapped for a tang sight.   Sad  Sorry. 

         Joe
  

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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 1:08pm
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I have a #1 sporting rifle with a factory tang sight. 1 15/16" hole spacing.
  
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rustyrelx
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #14 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 1:42pm
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1 15/16" seems to be the most common... Don
  
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:20pm
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rustyrelx wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:48pm:
...
Look at the front on the sight base and you will notice that it seems farther forward. The juncture at the front of the buttstock seems to be real close on some of the target bases and farther back on others. Obviously all being made and installed by Remington.
...
Don

Don,

Maybe not so obvious.
Consider that some factory Remington target sights may have been installed at Remington, while other factory Remington target sights may have been ordered separately for installation by shops on rifles with untapped tangs... which can explain the variation in positioning you see of the front of the sight base to the upper tang/front of buttstock to receiver reference datum you selected.

Looking in the old Remington catalogs, I haven't seen where the customer is requested to specify any screw spacing when ordering the Remington tang sight.

A person can use basic photogrammetry principles to see if a Rem factory sight base pictured in Marcot's book has the necessary OAL for a 2 1/16" screw spacing, but that will have to wait for you to post those particular page #'s, pictures, and rifles you mention.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #16 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 9:31am
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The problem with most of the pictures in Marcot's book, (or other books) is most provide a side profile only. We have to assume that based on the length of the sight base it may be a 1 15/16". But since were guessing, there's no way to know for sure that a certain length base is that spacing on the screws.
I do agree that with the number of Rolling Blocks sold untapped for tang sight, any number of them could have been done later by owners or gunsmiths.
  

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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #17 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:11pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 9:31am:
The problem with most of the pictures in Marcot's book, (or other books) is most provide a side profile only. We have to assume that based on the length of the sight base it may be a 1 15/16". But since were guessing, there's no way to know for sure that a certain length base is that spacing on the screws.
I do agree that with the number of Rolling Blocks sold untapped for tang sight, any number of them could have been done later by owners or gunsmiths.

Vall,

Those side profiles are useful.
They provide lengths, distances, angles and scale.
We have established measurements from various points on actual receivers (pull one out of your safe and do some measuring), and also on actual samples of Rem factory production sights.
Working with established values allows you eliminate a lot of PIOOYA guessing and assumptions.     Wink
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #18 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 7:10pm
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BP wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:11pm:
[quote author=404C5F4144434A58542D0 link=1445622605/17#17 date=1446561114] 
Vall,

Those side profiles are useful.
They provide lengths, distances, angles and scale.
We have established measurements from various points on actual receivers (pull one out of your safe and do some measuring), and also on actual samples of Rem factory production sights.
Working with established values allows you eliminate a lot of PIOOYA guessing and assumptions.     Wink


They are indeed helpful IF we know for sure what the sight is. But we have quite a few sights that look very similar, so a thick base Remington sight looks much like a thick base Winchester or Marlin Ballard. But all three have different hole spacing, even though the length of all three is very close. With the possibility of a gunsmith installed sight, we may have the possibility of three different spacing, and no way to tell when looking at a side profile. And the problem becomes even more complicated with aftermarket Marbles or Lyman tang sights. 
These two guns have the same spacing, and have two different factory sights. Since Marlin D&T their receivers all the time, the difference in bases doesn't matter. But if these two sights were on a Remington, a side profile wouldn't clue me in to what the screw spacing might be.
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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #19 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 9:11pm
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Vall,

Let's try it this way... can you tell a factory Remington sight from a factory Winchester sight from a factory Marlin Ballard sight?

I suspect you've seen more than enough samples of originals, both mounted on rifles as well as loose, to distinguish between them using more than just the difference in screw spacings.

Yes, they have their similarities.
But (ignoring the screw spacings), the Remington tang sight wasn’t a direct duplicate of a Winchester thick base, or of a Marlin Ballard, or of an early thick base Lyman.

Like any firearm part, sights have their recognizable differences, which is what we use to distinguish between them, and which often makes a particular sight stick out like a great big sore thumb, and is one of the reasons the claims made about sights on flea-bay are often so hilarious.      Smiley



  

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Re: Remington Rolling Block
Reply #20 - Nov 5th, 2015 at 8:30pm
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I have a Remington sight base in my hand and it is 1 15/16" center to center.
  
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