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CajunRebel
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M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Aug 14th, 2015 at 8:11pm
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Finally found a load and COAL for my M1885 (repro) .32-40 (non-competition).  Maybe a little more refinement is needed but I feel I am really close (100yds, 1.75", iron sights).  Not very impressive as things go, but I'm happy.  While shooting first-time fired Winchester cases (from the same bag) I had trouble closing the breech block on several, which I set aside (20%).  Not a big deal but a little force was necessary.  The brass had all the usual preps, e.g., primer pocket uniformity, etc., bullets just touching the lands.  I encountered this before.  Since I had my caliper I thought I would do some measuring.  I found that the cases loaded without issue had a rim thickness of .057-.058."  The ones that needed extra pressure to close the breech were .060-.061."

Are these .061" cases some I should cull out or is this typical?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #1 - Aug 15th, 2015 at 10:20am
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Ran into this same issue just last week. A friend got his newly restored 1893 Marlin back, which has a NOS factory Marlin barrel on it. He had loaded up a bunch of ammo in the correct bullet size, and his breechbolt wouldn't close on anything he had with a Winchester headstamp. We checked the rims and found them all thicker on the Winchester. I could chamber them in my Ballard #4, but his new chamber wouldn't accept them.
  

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Chuckster
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #2 - Aug 15th, 2015 at 12:26pm
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SAAMI specs are pretty generous on the 32-40. Cartridge rim thickness .063 -.010". Chamber headspace depth: .063" Min., .070" Max. Sounds like the gunsmith was trying for minimum headspace in both cases, which is a good thing.
Chuck
  
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JLouis
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #3 - Aug 15th, 2015 at 1:11pm
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If you have a lathe you can face off that 2-3 thous. and re-set the primer pocket depth. or you can lap it off if you can hold the base flat to a flat surface. It doesn't take much effort to take off the required amount when lapping brass so you have to go real slow as you are only looking at removing about half the depth of the headstamp if that. The brass is to hard to come by to just cull it out.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2015 at 1:15pm
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I just measured a bunch of different brands- some made from .32spl or .30-30, and the older they were the more uniform they were. Mostly under .060, and, like I said, pretty consistent within a batch. THEN, I measured some unfired Winchester and not only did I find some that were as big as .062, but the rims were as much as .007 different from place to place on the same case. Not the greatest. I wish I could test whether the out of squareness is more on the front or back side of the rim. Or, if any of it is square. For whatever it's worth the most uniform of all was some elderly Western, some original .32-40 and some formed from .32spl. The new Win was the most varied. My old rifle chambers all of it with no rim being too thick.
  
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CajunRebel
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #5 - Aug 15th, 2015 at 6:29pm
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Thank you everyone for the input.  It's seems that if the rim is .060" or thicker then, at the breech pivot point, extra force will be needed.  I cleaned everything, thinking maybe some debris was behind the extractor but the area was clean.  All brass was very clean, no soot, so the breech is sealing well.  Will do some more measuring tomorrow.  Maybe the extract scallop(?) is too thick.   Need a magnifying glass for that. Shocked
  
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calledflyer
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #6 - Aug 16th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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One thing we didn't mention earlier is whether the case heads show some scrubbing or drag marks where the block might have left evidence. That would be worth checking to see. Or, maybe some of those rounds were just a bit longer overall, thus making them not seat fully without a little push. Mine shoots fixed best just that way!
  
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JLouis
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #7 - Aug 16th, 2015 at 8:58pm
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Simply check your headspace, if its headspaced off a 58-59 rim thickness anything larger is not going to want to fit. Take an empty case with a 59 thou. rim, chamber it and try to close the block on a 1 thous. feeler gauge and it will either go / close or no go / not close. If its a no go then the 60 thou. rim is simply to thick and if it closes the 60 thou. rim is not the problem.
  

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CajunRebel
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #8 - Aug 16th, 2015 at 9:00pm
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All brass checked out at trim length, they were new.  I used a fired case to check the extractor, it is not sticking out too far.  It actually can be pushed in a little. The only thing left to measure is the rim depth of the chamber.  Don't have a tool for that.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #9 - Aug 16th, 2015 at 11:17pm
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Rebel, in case I wasn't too clear, (that happens a lot) I was referring to the overall length. Since you say your bullet was "just touching the lands", I was suggesting that a few might have been just a wee tad longer. Enough to make them rub the back of the breechblock by not being seated all the way clear. My rifle shoots very well that way. But, you can feel it snugging the round into the chamber that way. If that's the case with yours all it does is just engrave the bullet a bit into the rifling, and like I say mine likes it pretty well. 
You can try what J Louis suggested- but .060 is under the SAAMI spec. of .063 min. Maybe your barrel guy didn't run the reamer in just quite enough- that'll limit you to thin rim cases or a redo on the recess. Or, you could just send me all the thick ones- I like 'em just fine. Good luck
  
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CajunRebel
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #10 - Aug 17th, 2015 at 9:43am
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Really appreciate everyone comments.

I used fired brass to assess the rim thickness, not OAL of case.  Those case just slide in.  Being new Winchester .32-40 brass I made sure they were all trim length, albeit, some were a little shorter.  .060" just cams a wee bit, which I think is O.K. and will probably become max.  I'm just going to accept that I have a tight rim spec.

Being paranoid, and maybe a little selfish, Tongue I bought 350 cases when I bought my rifle.  I'm gonna do some sorting and, preferably, swap with someone at a later date.  The brass stays very clean and I am neck-sizing and barely flaring the case-mouth, so the brass should last. 

Again, thank you everyone.  It's off to the range tomorrow.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: M1885 .32-40 Rim Thickness - Fixed Cartridge
Reply #11 - Aug 17th, 2015 at 12:47pm
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Well, good shootin'. Let us hear how it's going.
  
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