I wanted to start a new thread on some issues I have been having where my cast 32-40 bullets are not breech seating without using a rubber hammer to tap them in with the breech seater . Since I'am learning things as I go maybe some new shooters and casters to the world of breech seating can benefit from my problems . Bought my breech seater rifle and Hoch mold from CPA rifles and using a 20:1 alloy mix from Roto Metals bullet diameters were at .324 and would not breech seat without great force . I called Hoch Mold Co. this am and spoke to a gentleman named Dave . He had me check the pins for burrs and to make sure there was no light between the mold blocks . Instructed me to call CPA first . Mr. Shuttleworth answered my call today and he checked the specs on my rifle and yes it was cut or throated for breech seating, infact he told me it has been many years since he has not cut a 32-40 chamber for breech seating . Paul told me my 20:1 mix is actually very hard . I was surprised because I thought 20:1 was the go to alloy ? Told me to try adding more lead even to a 40:1 or 30:1 mix . I casted first just 100% pure lead and the bullets came in at .320, to small ! 30:1 came in at .323 , 20:1 at .324, this diameter the bullet will not breech seat and a final 40:1 mix and BINGO a .322 diameter bullet that breech seats like everyone is telling me a bullet should. Paul Also told me" that the Douglas barrel are cut very tight, infact he uses one in competition. Also the Hoch mold # .322 200 D , the D stands for Douglas barrel blanks and Hoch makes this mold special for CPA and Douglas barrels . One final bit of info , Dave from Hoch told me that they use Linotype to test all their molds . Thanks for all the help. I'am going to go shoot now .

Just for general info:

In the WRA Catalogue No. 61 (March 1898), in the section containing Winchester Center Fire Cartridges...
WRA shows the 32-40 loaded with 40 grains of black powder, using a 165 grain lead bullet alloyed 1 part tin and 40 parts lead.
A Smokeless version was available, specifics not provided.

Also shown is the 32-40 SHORT RANGE loaded with 13 grains of Black powder, using a 98 grain bullet alloyed 1 part tin to 20 parts lead.
       (I wonder if there was some air space between the Black powder and the base of the bullet)
No Smokeless version of the SHORT RANGE load is listed.

Have fun.   

I might send the mold back to Hoch . How do I tell if the chamber has been throated ? Paul told me he has not tapered throated a 32-40 barrel for breech seating in 10-15 years . The 20:1 alloy came out to .324 and the 40:1 came to .322 . Paul told me with as close as the Douglas tolerences are a .324 bullet is not going to breech seat . If I use a bore light what am I I looking for to see if the chamber was cut for breech seating ? You stated your friend had to send his barrel back to CPA because it was not throated ? What made him figure out it was not ? Was this just a oversight or a mistake on CPA's end ? My .322 bullets glide in pretty easy now, should I have a little resistance ? The plug at the end of my seater is only 1/16 " should I go a little longer ? If I punch the bullet out from the muzzle end I'am seeing no rifling on the bullet ? Thanks

Brudford you should indeed see some engraving on the bullet. Per your description I would be concerend of the bullet not makeing a good gas seal of which will gas cut the bullet. Rule of thumb is to engrave the bullet half way through the base band as a place to start but I prefer to seat it deeper. If you want to check if your bullet is sealing breach seat a bullet and fire a primed case ( no powder ) count off 15 seconds and drop the breach block and the trapped gas pressure should pop the case out. Do not stand behind the case I had one come shooting out and dang near went through my garage door. I usually wad up some rags now and just catch it as its coming out. After the case has been removed push the bullet back out and if it did not seal you will see the black soot going down the side of the bullet.

JLouis

All the rifles that I chamber or re-throat, have freebores. that's a portion ahead of the case, that is cylinderical and larger than the groove diameter, the angled leade, what goes through the rifling, starts ahead of that.

The CPA chamber may well have that same type of throat. If so, the throat marking is hard to define.

Mark the base band with a dark color felt marker and BS the largest base band, that you can full close the breech block on.

Look for where the shiney area stops and where the band has a slight bulge. That is where the seal will be.

As was said, it should be at least 1/2 way up the band but, it will be more accurate if that "bulge" is only .030 - .040 long.

The more that sticks out, the more that will be smashed and have to reform into the throat.

From that point, you may be able to push it in more but, not, usually all the way into the throat.

Frank

I think I'am going to send the barrel back to CPA . I tried several tests that leads me to believe that this chamber was not cut for breech seating ? Colored the bottom base band with magic marker and breech seated the bullet no rifling marks on the bottom colored band ? Breech seated another bullet and place a primered case without powder and there was no back pressure when I opened the chamber and after inspection of the bullet there was black soot up the sides of the bullet . Thanks for all the help .

I spoke with Paul today at CPA with the intent on sending back my barrel . He pretty much said what you just did that with the long .322" reamer he uses you will not see any rifling marks on the bullet base band, not with the .322" bullets that the Hoch mold casts . When I do my part and cast a perfect .322" diameter bullet I'am getting 1/2 MOA at 200 yards . I casted some bullets last night and the diameters were 319- .320, accuracy was poor only able to get in the black with a small bore 200 yard target . Paul told me my barrel is designed to work with only 322" bullets period . I'am keeping the barrel and will defer to his expertise . I'am having some consistency problems with my lead alloy mix and the Hoch mold . I really appreciate all the help and ideas that have been offered to me over the last couple of days . You guys are a wealth of information . Thanks

The bullets that were casted with the 20:1 alloy were very hard to seat . The bullets at .322 " seat like they should . I'am getting no engraving at the base bands .