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Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? (Read 10340 times)

Brudford01 Full Member Offline Posts: 196 Location: Beaver Falls PA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Jul 9^th, 2015 at 9:34pm	Print Post
	Just started to shoot my new CPA 32-40 . My first batch of bullets had excellent accuracy . I made myself a plugged case with a piece of brass rod for the plug and attached to a T-handle. When breech seating my first batch of bullets with very little effort was needed to seat . My second batch of bullets I had to use a lot of pressure to breech seat each bullet . I punched out the bullet and noted the bases were all deformed or cupped from the added pressure and accuracy went to s...t ? So I made a plugged cased with a piece of hard dowel wood with no handle and used the caming action to breech seat each bullet , same problem bullet bases destroyed ? Note my plugs are only 1/16" from end of case mouth, and I'am using scrap lead of an unknown alloy ? I have also ordered from Roto metals some pre-mixed 20:1 mix . I hate to pay the price but I know it is virgin lead and tin. Any ideas what may be causing my issues ? I also bought some lead remover and made sure there was no build-up of lead. Thanks
	« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2015 at 9:00pm by Brudford01 »

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Pentz Senior Forum Member Offline Funf und Zwanzig mit den Hut Posts: 435 Location: Vancouver, WA Joined: Sep 4^th, 2014	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #1 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 10:20pm	Print Post
	Check your diameters and also look for any leading of the throat. If the bases deform you are encountering undue resistance.

	ASSRA Member Yoostabe # 11497
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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #2 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 11:06pm	Print Post
	What Pentz means is: if the plug end is smaller than the base of the bullet = a fin on the seated bullet caused by the pressure of the plug against the bullet base. So, you need to drop the bullet into the chamber. Then put a wad in the chamber and the plug will push against the wad without touching the bullet base I'm using 1/16 x 5/16" adhesive back felt wads that ordered from DuroFelt ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Fiber wads will work also Here's how the felts look on the bullets in my new breech seater box... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #3 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 11:07pm	Print Post
	You can't put your 9 inch foot into a 71/2 inch shoe it simply doesn't fit no matter how hard you try.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2581 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #4 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 10:33am	Print Post
	I would definitely use a known alloy rather than scrap. I switched to a Russ Weber seater from the plugged case that CPA supplies as it supports the bullet better, so it goes in straight and the bases are undamaged. I think it depends a lot on the proper bullet to throat fit. My .38-55 came with a SAAMI style throat rather than a gentle one for breech seating so a plugged case definitely doesnt work well when using the Hoch schuetzen bullet. If accuracy has gone away, check carefully for leading. Even the tiniest bit of lead in the rifling will make my .32-40 throw big flyers. Chris.


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #5 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 12:06pm	Print Post
	Brudford Was the bullet alloy in the first and second batches different? If it was different then maybe the problem is that there is antimony in the alloy antimony retards shrinkage so the bullets may be slightly larger. The other possibility is that you may have gotten a tiny bit of alloy on the face of your mold. This would make the bullets larger and give you greater difficulty in seating. 40 Rod


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Brudford01 Full Member Offline Posts: 196 Location: Beaver Falls PA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #6 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 8:58pm	Print Post
	I received some 20:1 alloy today from Roto Metals and casted 50 bullets with the Hoch 32-40 mold provided by CPA . The bullet diameters measured exactly .320 " . Placed some felt on the tip of my seater plug and there still was damage to the bullet bases. No cupping this time but the bases were smashed . Just how much pressure should it take to breech seat a bullet ? Could of CPA not cut my barrel for breech seating ? Thanks


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FITZ Oldtimer Offline REGARDS Posts: 917 Location: MASSACHUSETTS Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #7 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 9:37pm	Print Post
	Brudford, they may not if you did not ask for it to be reamed for breech seating. The other issue is scrap alloy of unknown alloy levels can cause trouble. One of the big issues with breech seating is that the bullet must be such that when you seat the bullet it seats smoothly with one neat push. If you have to push again and again you will be "Bumping" the bullet into different conditions. When this happens and the bullet is damaged or bumped it changes shape and size. The result usually is it will not shoot to the same Zero and groups and scores will suffer. HTH Regards, FITZ.

	FITZ
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Brudford01 Full Member Offline Posts: 196 Location: Beaver Falls PA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #8 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 9:58pm	Print Post
	I remeasured the bullet diameters and they all came out to .324" not .320" like I indicated in the above post . The Hoch mold is stamped .322" Would that make breech seating very difficult ?


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #9 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 10:20pm	Print Post
	Quote: I remeasured the bullet diameters and they all came out to .324" not .320" like I indicated in the above post . Quote: I made myself a plugged case with a piece of brass rod for the plug If the end of the plug is less than 0.324 - no wad is going to prevent the bullet base from being 'crunched' Your alternative is to resize the bullets to the 0.001 smaller than the diameter of the plug end or make a new plug I made my plug that is 1/16" past the end of the case and the diameter is 0.324 at the end of the plug only... so any bullet less than 0.324 is not going to be buggered
	« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2015 at 10:28pm by »

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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 12284 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #10 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 10:47pm	Print Post
	Quote - I also bought some lead remover. Lead remover? What did you buy? Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Pentz Senior Forum Member Offline Funf und Zwanzig mit den Hut Posts: 435 Location: Vancouver, WA Joined: Sep 4^th, 2014	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #11 - Jul 10^th, 2015 at 11:56pm	Print Post
	Wipe out-Patch out has worked for me. There are lots of good ones out there, however. Check for carbon fouling as well. Once you know how to spot leading it's pretty obvious by sight and feel. My CPA-supplied plugged case insert measures .308; Russ Weber's breech seater plug measures .312. My CPA case mouth ID is .322. It's gonna be impossible to have a .322 or .324 plug for a case that measures .318 ID at the case mouth of a 32-40.

	ASSRA Member Yoostabe # 11497
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shovel80 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 896 Location: Sonora,CA Joined: Jun 6^th, 2011	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #12 - Jul 11^th, 2015 at 8:34am	Print Post
	This is probably a silly question......but, are your Bullets Lubed? Terry

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #13 - Jul 11^th, 2015 at 9:07am	Print Post
	OK let’s start from scratch. First call CPA and find out how your chamber was throated. If it was throated with a taper throat then we can go on. Second measure a bullet just off the dividing line and with the dividing line at 90 degrees to the measure. This will tell you if your bullet is round. If the bullet is round then you have a mold that was cut too large, it happens. Check the mold to be sure the base band on the mold should measure about .0015” larger than what you want for a .32 cal bullet. Check carefully that the mold is closing properly. It is not uncommon for pins to be set too long or a slight burr to be holding the mold apart. With a glass check the faces of the mold to make sure that the faces are clean and free of anything that might hold them apart. If the mold is closing properly and the bullet is round and still too large then return it for one cut properly. 40 Rod


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7626 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech seater distorts base of bullet ?? Reply #14 - Jul 11^th, 2015 at 2:09pm	Print Post
	FITZ wrote on Jul 10^th, 2015 at 9:37pm: Brudford, they may not if you did not ask for it to be reamed for breech seating. The other issue is scrap alloy of unknown alloy levels can cause trouble.One of the big issues with breech seating is that the bullet must be such that when you seat the bullet it seats smoothly with one neat push.If you have to push again and again you will be "Bumping" the bullet into different conditions. When this happens and the bullet is damaged or bumped it changes shape and size. The result usually is it will not shoot to the same Zero and groups and scores will suffer. HTH Regards, FITZ. The high lighted text, is very important. The throat, really isn't important if you BS. I've shot standard, "Schuetzen" (no throat) and free bored, long lead chamberings and they all shoot accurately. Even if the bullet is over size, if it's a tapered bullet, it will still shoot fairly well if it can be BSed as above. I noticed that you have a hammer on the table, if your using it to get the bullet seated, that may be your problem. In my freebored, long lead throat, I can seat the bullet with just my hand if, the tapered bullet is no more than .002 over groove size but, on the other two throats, I can not. I would do two things in your case: 1. Send the mold back and get one with a .322/.323 base band. All other bands between .318/.319 and .321. 2. Buy or make some kind of BSer that has leverage. A Russ Webber seater is never a mistake but, you can make one that has a lever that uses a tang sight base as it's fulcrum point. That's what I have for my 44 1/2. After that, talk to us about BS depth, we have slightly different opinions on that but, all will be in a very small range. Frank
	« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2015 at 2:15pm by frnkeore »
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