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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Tale Of Two Primers (Read 25763 times)
Cat_Whisperer
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #15 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 9:17pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 9:13pm:
If you have a refined powder load and switch the primer you may no longer have the sweet spot to minimize your barrel vibrations. ....


That's the game.  The flip side is that a change of primers MAY improve the group.  We've seen it happen from time to time.

I like the advice that someone gave: when you've tuned the load as much as you can, try EVERY primer you can put your hands on.


  

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Pentz
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #16 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:17pm
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Adrian wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:18am:
CPA 44 1/2 have an adjustment for the tension on the hammer spring. I think that it has an effect on the hammer strike force.


My CPA begins to misfire and I find the hammer spring tension screw to have backed out.  A half-turn with the 1/16" Allen wrench picks it up again.  Is this a common occurance?  Took some hair pulling to figure that one out.
  

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JLouis
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #17 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 11:06pm
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Pentz I have not had that same problem with my CPA but I did with my Bresien Stevens 441/2 pre-CPA and 
I don't recommend that you use anything other than some fine sewing thread wrapped around the screw threads to keep it from backing out, I would not use any thread locking componds!

JLouis
  

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Pentz
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #18 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:26am
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I've been shooting traditional PB in CBA matches here in Vancouver with 9.3 of AA9, and Remington 6 1/2 or 7 1/2 primers.  Swapping in Federal 205's was disastrous....This fall and winter I'll start pushing the envelope to get velocities up in the 1450 range.
  Yeah, that is a light load but when the wind is read correctly it has gotten some good scores.  I'll push the envelope if 4100 ever appears.  But yes, in my experience primers do matter.
  

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JLouis
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #19 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 5:54pm
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Pentz CBA Matches were extremely popular at our club but unfortunatly they are now gone. Due to some minor disractions in this topic I think I lost track of what Rifle and Cartridge you are currently using. All my rifles to date have like the 1474 avg. velocity range and if you can get there I hope it works as well for you as it has me. If you don't mind sharing your current equipment consists of I would be extremely interested. By chance did you attend the 2006 CBA National event in Springfield Oregon?

JLouis
  

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Pentz
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #20 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 8:36pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 5:54pm:
Pentz CBA Matches were extremely popular at our club but unfortunatly they are now gone. Due to some minor disractions in this topic I think I lost track of what Rifle and Cartridge you are currently using. All my rifles to date have like the 1474 avg. velocity range and if you can get there I hope it works as well for you as it has me. If you don't mind sharing your current equipment consists of I would be extremely interested. By chance did you attend the 2006 CBA National event in Springfield Oregon?

JLouis


Never had the opportunity to live near a suitable range during my mobile working life.  After retirement returned to shooting and found cast bullet matches, where I competed in scoped military.  Took the national 10-round 300 group record until my buddy took it back last month. Embarrassed  Its a friendly group without the **ck bumping seen in formal CF matches.
  To compete in PB I picked up a 32-20 CPA after some discussion with Gail.  It's also used by others in the region so there is some direct competion.  It's a challenging rifle, but without the headaches of case massaging necessary for 30 BR for example.  So I'm on the rapid learning curve at 67...but if its not fun there is no sense in pursuing it..too much like my career!
  

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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #21 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:53pm
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Pentz who are some of the fellows you shot with in the Military class in your area? The 32-20 CPA all though some what challenging at times is more than capable in winning matches you just have to hang in there.

JLouis
  

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John Boy
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #22 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:04pm
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Quote:
I was using Federal GMM 205 primers in my 25-20 WCF but they aren't available now. I tried the CCI BR4 primers and was pleasantly surprised.

Jerry - notice the flame comparison between the Federal 205's and the CCIBr4's.  The smaller the flame shooting smokeless powders creates less brisance with the sonic gas pressure wave shattering the grains of powder on denotation ... which I believe to be a better 'controlled' denotation resulting in better accuracy using various powders 
Federal 205
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CCI BR4
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Another low brisance primer is the PMCSRM
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And here is the brisance of a Remington 7.5SR primer 
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« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:11pm by »  
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JerryH
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #23 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:33pm
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John Boy,

I've seen those primer test photos before. What an eye-opener that was.

I fully agree with you on your thoughts. Like I said, I was very happy with the Federal 205 GMM primers but was running low and decided to give the CCI BR4 a try. They shot as well or better and since they are available I bought a "few".   

Since the AA4100 is a ball powder (very, very fine) I wonder if maybe it doesn't like a primer with just a little more brisance than the Federal. Just a thought. Not sure that it holds any water though.

I originally used the Remington 7 1/2 BR primers. After seeing the photos I realized why I was getting so much carbon fouling in my barrel. That's when I made the change to the Federal primers. Not that the Remington primers are bad. The jacketed BR guys seem to like them.

Thanks for posting those pictures for all to see. 

JerryH
  

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Pentz
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:50pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:53pm:
Pentz who are some of the fellows you shot with in the Military class in your area? The 32-20 CPA all though some what challenging at times is more than capable in winning matches you just have to hang in there.

JLouis


Bill Anderson, Bud Lawry, Lee Alexander, John Schauf, Doug Sellenberger, Virgil Edwards.  I'm firing a 1917 Win. 30/06. Bud has fired possibles at 100 and 200 with his Springfield 03A3.  CPA shooters are from up north, Mitch Migliaccio and Bud Hiatt.  Maybe next year I'll get down to Springfield.  Both Springfield and Puyallup are 2.5 hrs each way.
  

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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #25 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 7:18am
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Thank you John Boy & JerryH. You've added some really valuable input to this thread. Back on track. How do we compare the flame intensity & pattern between the Fed 205-M & the 205-MAR? Considering the relative availability of the MARs, and that misfires and/or failure to fire incidents with the MAR appear to be speculative, isn't it possible that we have a viable alternative to the (unavailable) 205-Ms? Thanks all for your constructive input.
  

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JerryH
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #26 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 10:59am
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OkeyMaple,

Very interesting that you've had no misfires with the MAR primers. The gentleman I talked to at Federal assured me that I would have problems.

He also assured me the primers were identical in composition, the only difference being a harder cup material. 

I'm sure he was doing his best to relay what he thought was accurate information and trying hard to be helpful. I'm not sure what to think now.

Seeing as how they're working for you without any problems I'm tempted to think he was at least partly right with what he told me. Possibly he was erring on the side of caution about the misfires.

I've not seen any pictures of the MAR brisance to be able to compare them to the 205GMM. I'll take a look or maybe someone else will be able to find some pictures.

This just proves that you never know what will work in your rifle until you do some testing.

Thanks for this addition to this thread.

JerryH
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #27 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:03am
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For my .32 RKS and my 25 RKS Schuetzen loads I have been continuously using the R.P. 7 1/2 primer since 1996.

When R.P. primers were not available and I was forced to use Federal primers I needed to add powder to get them to shoot (to get the same barrel vibrations as per my fine tuned R.P. primer load).
  
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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #28 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:22pm
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JerryH, etc. - I just returned from the range. Fired 50+ rounds .25-20WCF using 9.2 & 9.4 of 4100 and Fed. 205-MAR primers. No problems were encountered. Wind, weather was calm to very light breeze, sunny, 65 - 75 degrees. Ideal. Accuracy was as good as, if not better than previously achieved by this neophyte shooter.
  

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Re: A Tale Of Two Primers
Reply #29 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:39pm
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During the preferred primer shortage did anyone happen to give the Small Pistol Primers a try?

JLouis
  

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