Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Veggi vs Poly Wads (Read 15008 times)
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Veggi vs Poly Wads
Jun 23rd, 2015 at 7:59am
Print Post  
I use .060" thick LDPE wads and have been plagued with bulged cases when compressing my powder. My cases are R-P and .40-65 with a straight neck. I am compressing almost .25". I have tried veggi wads of the same thickness and the budging has been greatly reduced but I have not shot a sufficient number of these reloads to have confidence that they are as accurate as the poly wads. I am also concerned that the veggi wads may stick more readilly to the base of the bullet and have been using a newspaper wad between the bullet and veggi wad as insurance. I am wondering if other have had my same experience with case bulging and have therefore switched to the veggi wads without any noticable decrease in accuracy or velocity. I would appreciate hearing your experiences.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #1 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 8:54am
Print Post  
You don't say what your load is beyond the wads but I'll assume that you black. I’ll give you my two cents worth based on that. Using the plastic wad at the moment of impact the plastic compresses and you set up a pressure ring bulging the case. Have you checked the chamber? The vegetable wad doesn’t compress so it doesn’t set up the ring.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #2 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 9:35am
Print Post  
I am using 70 grs of Swiss BP, 3Fg. I am getting the bulging when I compress the poly wad against the powder using a compression plug. The bulging is not occurring when I fire the case. The cases are not sticking in the chamber after firing and they do not come out bulged. I have to resize the case, when they bulge after compressing the powder, to get them to chamber. I hope this clears up any uncertainty.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2580
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #3 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 10:01am
Print Post  
I have shot a couple of thousand rounds loaded like yours through my Shiloh in .40-65, but using FFFg Express rather than Swiss.  i've never had problem with bulging.  I also have been doing the same in a number of other rifles for years.

I've never moticed a significant accuracy difference between 0.060" veg and 0.060" LDPE though.  If i solves your problem I'd switch.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #4 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 10:11am
Print Post  
Ten Pounds of powder in a 5 pound bag. Putting 70 Grains of powder in a case made for 65 is your problem.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #5 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 10:44am
Print Post  
I also have about .200" of freebore so a non-tapered bullet can be loaded out of the case by this amount. Also, getting 70 grs into a .40-65 case is almost common practice these days.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7622
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #6 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 1:42pm
Print Post  
Is there any difference between the diameter of the LDPE wads that you and Gunlaker are using?

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2580
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #7 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 1:58pm
Print Post  
Mine are purchased from Buffalo Arms precut for the most part, although I cut some for .32's.

I haven't measured the .40 cal wads but will if it's of use to anyone.  The .45 cal wads are 0.460" or thereabouts.

I have used 69gr of FFFg Express in mine, which was compressed somewhere between .2" and .25".  That is with the 400gr "Kidwell" Money bullet which sits only 0.3" in the case.  Probably my most accurate load is with the Saeco #740 bullet using similarly compressed loads of FFFg (58gr).

I have heard of a few people bulging cases with lots of compression ( 0.4"or more ) but I regularly compress the various Goex powders to nearly a quarter inch with excellent results.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #8 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 2:12pm
Print Post  
My poly wads measure about .413 in dia. My bullets measure .410 and are a slip fit in my cases (my wads do require a push with a dowel to get started into the case mouth prior to compressing the powder). One thing I need to check is the diameter of my compression plug as I machined this down from a 45-cal one and went smaller than I intended. I am wondering if a relatively too-small plug might be causing the plastic wad material to flow out to the edges and swell the case when i compress the powder. This is all I can think that might be a potential problem right now. If I have another 45-cal plug I'll try machining it down to just where it fits the case mouth and compress some powder and see.  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #9 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 3:15pm
Print Post  
Track of the Wolf Wad Punches ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I have one of each.  Punch 0.03 & 0.06 LDPE - fiber wads - cardboard - felt - cork and paper with them.   

Seat wads with TOTW compression plugs that are used in Lee Expansion die ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Zero issues cutting & seating the wads with none of them, particularly punching & seating LDPE
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #10 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 3:19pm
Print Post  
Quote:
shot a couple of thousand rounds loaded like yours through my Shiloh in .40-65, but using FFFg Express

And I'll bet, your foul is harder than a woodpecker's nose using FFFg.  Smaller grains of BP burn hotter!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #11 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 3:51pm
Print Post  
Lots of guys are using 3Fg in 40-cal and even 45-cal cases without problems. Most are swiping between shots though with water-soluable-oil wetted patches.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #12 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 5:35pm
Print Post  
hepburnman wrote on Jun 23rd, 2015 at 10:44am:
I also have about .200" of freebore so a non-tapered bullet can be loaded out of the case by this amount. Also, getting 70 grs into a .40-65 case is almost common practice these days.

All right.......... another Hepburn shooter. Can't have too many Hepburns on the line.
Do you need 70gr of 3F Swiss? Are you shooting at 1000yd or something? ............ I shoot a Hepburn chambered in 40-65 and spot with several 40-65 shooters and compete against many others (BPCR & BPTR mid-range) and have yet run into anyone who loads as much as 70gr of 3F Swiss. Plus, the "common knowledge" with Swiss is that it shoots better (smaller SD) with little to no compression. Also have a long freebore (DanT designed reamer - may he RIP) and use a 413gr Money bullet with two reduced bands and find 64gr to be the max with 2F Swiss. Any more then that and the groups start growing. I use a fiber wad on the powder and a poly wad on top of that. Again, based on DanT's suggestion. Seems to be working as the rifle shoots better than I do. Am wondering if you have shot some ladder tests with 64/66/68/70gr of powder to see which groups the best? Obviously, YMMV.
« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2015 at 8:05am by SSShooter »  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2580
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #13 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 6:26pm
Print Post  
hepburnman wrote on Jun 23rd, 2015 at 3:51pm:
Lots of guys are using 3Fg in 40-cal and even 45-cal cases without problems. Most are swiping between shots though with water-soluable-oil wetted patches.


That's pretty much what I do.  I've been playing with OE 1.5 and 60.5 gr under the Kidwell money bullet in 16:1.  I do have to improve my fouling management a bit with this load, bu accuracy is excellent.

I've found that at least two of my .45-70's like FFFg more than they like the coarser granulations.  Not my Shiloh though.

I'm pretty sure that you can make any granulation work well with enough effort.  I have a nice .45-70 load that uses plain Goex Fg and Magnum Match primers.  According to the internet that load should not be good Smiley

Chris.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ole_pizen_slinger
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Joined: Oct 11th, 2007
Re: Veggi vs Poly Wads
Reply #14 - Jun 24th, 2015 at 11:11am
Print Post  
Compress your powder with a compression plug then seat your poly-wad.  You will not get the bulge in the case.  I have found poly-wads to give superior accuracy as compared to vegi-wads.
OPS
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint