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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) PID's (Read 14411 times)
UtahDave
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Re: PID's
Reply #15 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 11:52am
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Sam,

I don't like the screw in ones because they might leak.  I guess if you used a copper gasket it might be ok.   One thing to think of is the TC will be hooked to the two input screws on the back of the PID.  This means moving the pot will be more awkward or you have to disconnect the TC.   

Dave
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: PID's
Reply #16 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 2:49pm
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That is the one thing that I don't like about attaching a PID to the pot, but I got to looking and they do have connectors out there that you can hook up to your TC so that you can plug in and unplug so that things become more easily moved and stored. I found a project box that looks big enough that I can put 2 plugs on the back of it, one for the pot to plug into and one for the TC to plug into. 
I do like the idea of the long TC that just runs down the side of the pot. It shouldn't be all that hard to bend it out of the road and then make up a little attachment clamp and affix it to one of the screws on the top of the pot. 
I did go over the CBA site and did some reading there, very imformative. They did say that a 25 SSR was enough but I might up it to a 40 just to be on the safe side.  Once I have everything figured out and my shopping list finalized, it should make for a nice project for a few days. The only part of the project I am not looking forward to is producing the holes in the box for the plugs. With a mill it would be easy but with just a drill press, say and files, it will be a pain in the behind. Oh well, just call it a character building exercise.
Sam
  
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calledflyer
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Re: PID's
Reply #17 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 3:34pm
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cricket (if I may call you that), why not make the box from a plastic or fiberglass one? It'd be easier to make the holes and be guaranteed shockproof. And, don't forget that the plugs seen in the photo are polar-sensitive. Won't work if you hook 'em up backwards. Ask how I know.
  
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Larry D
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Re: PID's
Reply #18 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 4:23pm
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CBA. ???????

Larry
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: PID's
Reply #19 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 5:20pm
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Calledflyer, yes you may call me that. Plastic or fiberglass would work but those are not materials handy to me and not really something I am comfortable working with. A prefabed aluminum enclosure would be easiest as i am used to working with metals and have the tools, just not a mill. The aluninum boxes are powder coated and I think  may be non conductive to an extent. If everything is run right and done right there shouldn't be any electrical contact with the box. Yes I did see that some of the connections, especially the TC are polar and have to be done right or it will not work. So I guess that is one of those little things that is done right the first time or its just done over. Only problem that I did see in doing some research is that there isn't much of a standard on the Chinese wiring as to what color is + and what is the -. I do think that there is some guidance that comes with the plugs but not totally sure at this moment. 
CBA- Cast Bullet Association.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: PID's
Reply #20 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 6:35pm
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As you wish, sir, on the box material. You are correct about the thermocouple codings being "Chinese", figuratively and literally. To be honest, I just put them up by rote, and the change to a different one is what made me screw one up- costing the company a nice hunk of change when somebody had to travel to Asia to troubleshoot my build. Keep that under your nuclear hat.
  
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RoyB
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Re: PID's
Reply #21 - Jun 20th, 2015 at 9:05pm
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Here ya go! Lots of info here....

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Roy B
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SSShooter
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Re: PID's
Reply #22 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 11:22pm
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nuclearcricket wrote on Jun 20th, 2015 at 8:42am:
Ok, so basically I need a PID that will go to 800C, a 40A SSR and a K-type TC and that runs on 110 vac. Although it doesn't show it on the things I have looked at on E-bay, does the SSR come with a cover?  Also do you drill and tap the center of the bottom of the Lee pot and just screw in the TC? Do you feel that an extra nut would be a good idea to put on the end of the TC inside of the pot to prevent leakage?
I don't understand the need for a light and switch. Is there room for these items if I use a standard project box to enclose the PID?
Sam

Been away at the Shippensburg 60-shot BPCR match. Had the privilege of watching Brian Chilson set two new national records. He knocked 57/60 animals and also knocked over 12-chickens in a row. The 57 was 3-higher than the previous and 12-chickens is two higher. The next highest score was a 47. Brian is amazing. Good thing he doesn't have time to shoot Scheutzen. 
For your PID questions:
Yes, the 110v PID as shown above works just fine with the Lee 20# pot. And, yes, the 40A SSR does, as well. The type-K TC is part of a bridge circuit which is built into the PID and needs no other power. Just connect it to proper place on the PID controller and it is fine. The SSR goes across one side of the AC power cord to the Lee pot. Just cut one side of the AC power cord and connect both ends of the cord to the SSR. The other two terminals of the SSR are wired to the control points on the PID controller. The SSR can get fairly warm (even hot) to the touch. The back side is metal and is meant to be mounted to a heat sink like a sheet of aluminum. However, I just suspend mine in the air-stream at the top of the exhausted casting booth I built and it has been fine. It will take you about 30min to make all the connections. I use an Omega Engineering KTSS-18G-12 TC. The probe end (which is obvious) simply sits in the melt like the thermometer it replaced. I leave mine in the pot, along with the ladle when I turn everything off. Also, I plug the pot and PID into a power-strip which has an on/off switch (along with the exhaust fan for my casting bench & the light). Works great and have cast 10,000+ bullets with it over the past 3-4 years.

On eBay type in "PID controller and 40A SSR" in the search box and a bunch of them will show up. I don't like the TCs they include as are too short to sit in the pot. Make sure you get the higher temp PID.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2015 at 11:31pm by SSShooter »  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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SSShooter
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Re: PID's
Reply #23 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 8:47am
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Am out of space to add to the above post, but can scan and put up the PID/SSR/TC/pot wiring diagram if anyone is interested. You do not really need to know much about electricity/electronics to do this. Just follow the schematic that comes with the PID and you'll be good. Same with running the PID controller. It has 'fuzzy logic' with means it learns over time. Set the temp and pretty much forget. If you are the anal type, it even has contacts for a couple of alarms so you could add a klaxon to wake you up and tell you the pot is at temp if you fall asleep.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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j35nut
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Re: PID's
Reply #24 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 7:13pm
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Larry D wrote on Jun 20th, 2015 at 4:23pm:
CBA. ???????

Larry


Cast Bullet Association

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nuclearcricket
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Re: PID's
Reply #25 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 7:31pm
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Thanks Glen, been doing a lot of reading thanks to the posts here directing me to the cast bullet sites. The wiring doesn't look too hard to do, I just wonder if the 18 ga wire I have is heavy enough or if I should go to 14?
I did get some insite into what not to purchase so now I have a much better idea of what I want to get and where to get the most of it. I did get some work in last week and will be getting some more in this week so that will be going to a pid. My new pot should be here tomorrow so I will have that to play around with and see just where I can put and hook up what. It should be a fun project to spend a few days on putting together. I guess if I can start with an empty case and a day or so later have a working computer I should be able to put together a PID and have it work. Just a matter of figuring out what the right parts are to purchase and where to get the best parts at the best prices. From there its just drill a few holes and run a few wires and should be good to go. As long as sparks don't fly when I first plug it in, all should be good.
Thanks to all that posted and thanks for your help.
Sam
  
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SSShooter
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Re: PID's
Reply #26 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 8:04pm
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You are fine with 18ga wire from the PID to the SSR as it only carries a 4-20mA control signal. Pretty sure I used 22ga. You can use most any 120vac power cord to the PID. I usually have an old computer power cord laying around and you can just cut off the IEC plug and strip the wire back as needed to connect to the PID. As mentioned above, the power cord going to your pot is cut on one side, only, and the SSR is inserted into the line. The control signal from the PID then tells the SSR how much power to allow to be fed to the pot based on the signal from the TC (the temp). So you only need a foot or two of the 18ga wire and the cord to power up the PID.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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desert-dude
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Re: PID's
Reply #27 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 10:06am
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There seems to be some confusion about temps. Pure lead melts at ~ 327 C (Celsius) or
621 F. Any lead alloy will melt at a somewhat lower temp. While Pb doesn't boil until you get above to 1750 C much above the melting point of your alloy will increase the amount of oxidation and vaporization. Pb is a heavy metal and therefore toxic. 

PID's are a great way to go if you want good temp control. I had one on a muffle furnace that would hold to about a degree C at 625. Smiley

Since you are trying to control the temp of the Pb I'd put the thermocouple in the melt!

Just my tuppence. 


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nuclearcricket
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Re: PID's
Reply #28 - Jun 25th, 2015 at 9:15am
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I had a sort of Epiphany about the wire. Since I plan on using a computer power cord I did a little looking and I have 4 or so of them on hand, very easy to cut one up and just use the wire from that. That will give me 2 colored wires to work with and I all ready know they are heavy enough to handle the current. 
I also sat down and priced things out and to get what I want and the way I want it, it looks like its going to be a quick $100 plus what ever shipping might be added. I was hoping to come in under this but maybe some more research and shopping will yield better results but I doubt I will find much savings. The controler you can find at a lot of places, its the other things that there doesn't seem to be many sources of. Or at least not that I have found so far. Nice thing about the DIY projects, it allows you time to shop and find the best prices.
Sam
  
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RoyB
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Re: PID's
Reply #29 - Jun 25th, 2015 at 12:01pm
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This was posted on the Cast Bullet Forum...Thought it might help someone over here:

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See it here:
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Roy B
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