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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea (Read 14267 times)
JLouis
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #15 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 4:22pm
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One thought process on the increased bullet velocity with a wad at the base of the bullet is the bullet gets off to a more stable exit from the muzzle / less disturbance from the gases and the turbulence created on exit remains behind the wad.

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gunlaker
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #16 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 4:25pm
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That's an interesting idea.  We all talk about perfect bases, but it seems that when you have a wad under the bullet that the wad wants to be perfect too.   

Chris.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #17 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 5:14pm
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Chris I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the wad being perfect? I wouldn't think it needs be its simply pushing per-say a perfect bullet off to a possibly better start?

JLouis
  

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John Boy
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #18 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 6:47pm
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Gents, follow this thinking:
Harry Pope, as I mentioned used wool felt wads through his shooting periods using black powder, semi-smokeless and smokeless powders.  If felt wads were a hindrance to him being one of the greatest marksmen in the history of shooting ... sure as heck he would have stopped using them.

I'm no Harry Pope, I never used felt for smokeless or semi-smokeless but had stated... shot thousands in black powder reloads from 100yds out 1000.  Also digging spent bullets from the berms at all these distances - sharp edged bases.

The only difference is these felt wads have an adhesive side that I'm going to stick on the back of the smokeless bullets before I go to the range shooting 32-40 bullets breech seated.  Haven't started yet because I just received my breech seater from Russ

Is the adhesive going to screw up the accuracy of these reloads with a very thin layer of glue leaving a residue in the bore?  I truly don't think so and here's why!
I use a substantial ring of hot glue to seal the over shot cards on my MagTech BP shot shell reloads.  When I clean the bores with hot tap water & a squirt of Dawn ... the bores come absolutely 100% clean the whole length of the tubes

What little adhesive on the felts, will be consumed with the burned felt
  
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Mick B
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #19 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 9:19pm
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It would be interesting to hear if any of the felt or adhesive was still on the base of the bullets after they were recovered.
I would be surprised if any felt of reasonable thickness would be consumed in the barrel in the few milliseconds before the bullet exited the barrel.
The fact that Harry used then only shows that they were available, many other materials used today were not, perhaps he may have preferred LDPE wads or floral foam, we will never know. 
Mike.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #20 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 9:22pm
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With a breach seated 32-40 bullet at 1350 muzzle veloctiy in a 15 twist spining at over 70,000 rpms I doubt that John's felt wads will stay on the base of the bullet after exciting the muzzle causing any ill affects. 

JLouis
  

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gunlaker
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #21 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 9:43pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 14th, 2015 at 5:14pm:
Chris I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the wad being perfect? I wouldn't think it needs be its simply pushing per-say a perfect bullet off to a possibly better start?

JLouis


John I've read of the idea of a bullet with a base that i imperfect, or one who's base is not at 90 degrees to the bore causing gasses, upon exit from the muzzle, to exit on one side of the base first causing accuracy problems.  It seems that if the wad were similarly imperfect it could cause the same problems.

I did not know that Pope used felt wads. I'm sure I must have read that somewhere Smiley.  It is interesting and shows that they are worth serious testing.

Chris.

  
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #22 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 10:03pm
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I suppose a somewhat different affair, but I've seen a Vegtable Fiber wad stuck in a 200 yd Target on a .45-70 BPCR from Not Wiping the Lube from the Base of the bullet well enough...

Terry
  

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JLouis
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #23 - Jun 14th, 2015 at 11:40pm
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Instead of talking about the possible merits it would be more interesting to have those with interest jump on the band wagon, do some serious testing and report back with their personnel findings after trying several varieties of wad materials. Its easy to sit back and find faults in a subject but its more worth while and valuable to this group to get out and try to prove the merits of it.

John I take off my hat for your efforts and I will value your findings.

Yours Sincerely
John Louis
  

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John Boy
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #24 - Jun 15th, 2015 at 12:10am
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Quote:
It would be interesting to hear if any of the felt or adhesive was still on the base of the bullets after they were recovered.

Mick, a felt wad will never have a snow ball's chance in hell of ever reaching the bore ... let alone still be on the base of a recovered bullet.  Your forgetting the temperature that felt burns at and the internal ballistic's flame temperature of various smokeless powders when it touches the wad on the base of the bullet ...   
Quote:
Flame temperature is very close to the same for all smokeless powders and runs about 3300 degrees F.  Ball type powders tend to be from 3200 to 3300 degrees F and extruded powders tend to run 3300 to 3400 degrees F but there is wide variation.

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bpjack
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #25 - Jun 15th, 2015 at 8:27pm
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John,

It would be interesting to film those shots in the dark compared to one with no wad.  My only experience is with wads using BP.  The cardboard ones are barely singed.   

Jack
  

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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #26 - Jun 15th, 2015 at 8:44pm
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I've recovered lots of wads from my paper patched rifles ( well, just the bullets are patched, not the actual rifles Smiley.

The LDPE ones show paper imprints from the patch folds at the base, but no flame damage that I've ever seen, except when using FFFg and getting some gas cutting.  In that case you can see the cuts in the wad.   

Today I recovered a partially burnt 0.030" wad that was sitting under a lube cookie.  That surprised me as I've never seen one with burn marks before.   

I've never recovered a felt wad, but have only shot a couple of hundred probably.  Most of those were behind breech seated .32-40 bullets.

I was recently given a bag of .45 cal felt wads which I will experiment with soon.

Several years ago Dan Theodore told me of some testing ( bpcr rifles ) with veg, ldpe, and hdpe wads.  He was testing to see how wad types affected bullet finning as the lands engraved the base.  Veg wads had the largest fins, ldpe were smaller, and hdpe eliminated them.  I have recovered patched bullets that were seated under a 0.030" veg and a 0.060" LDPE and found very small fins where each land cut the base.

That's a little ways off of John's original topic, but it is wad related and maybe of interest to someone.

Chris.




  
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #27 - Jun 16th, 2015 at 8:20am
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My only concern is the adhesive at the moment of impact the wad will be shoved harder on to the bullet base as it travels down the bore. I have to assume that it will remain stuck to the base of the bullet during flight. It might come off during flight at some point but not uniformly. This would affect accuracy. With cork and other felt wads without adhesive the wad just comes off as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle so no effect on flight. 

40 Rod
  
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Re: Wads Protecting Breech Seated Bullets - A New Idea
Reply #28 - Jun 16th, 2015 at 11:44am
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My pea brain agrees with 40 Rod.  I doubt the wads will burn (consistently) and then the age of the glue, pressure of applying the sticky things, and even different brands of felt bumpers will show effects. Like John L says, somebody (but not me) should report back so we can get all over this some more. It's interestin'.
  
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