Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 30-40 in a High-wall (Read 22672 times)
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
30-40 in a High-wall
Jun 8th, 2015 at 7:03pm
Print Post  
Finally got out to the range today with my vintage Farr one piece stocked flat spring high-wall. (See the Benenson thread under Single Shots) I had 4 bullets on hand in suitable quantity and picked 3 to start with in new Winchester 30-40 brass. I beveled and chamfered the mouths and ran the cases into a 30 Lyman M die and seated the bullets in a 30-06 seater. This worked fine except that I need to get a round nose seating stem for it to avoid marking the bullets. Going through a bunch of old manuals I picked out some moderate loads such that I had 20 separate 5 shot loads to test. The 3 bullets were Lyman 311291 GC round nose of 170 plus some odd grains, Lyman 308329 GC pointed of 180 some odd grains, and Lyman 311278 plain base cone shaped nose of near 200 grains. I had high hopes for the 308329 as it delivers near MOA in my K31 Swiss. The 311278 was Dr. Hudson's original plain base design for 100-200 yard target shooting in the 30-40 and preceded the 311284 GC version which he did for 600 yard shooting. As such, I couldn't load this up as much as most do their 311284s. The powders selected were 2400, 4227, 4759, and 4198. I was shooting at 100 yards on a calm day. Because of the size of the front bead getting a good sight picture was not easy. It would have worked with the ASSRA 200 yard target but totally covered the 100 yard target. I resorted to 8.5 x 11 sheets of dark green paper with a 3x3 orange square stapled on. The hold then was to approximate a 6 o'clock on the orange square which with the short barrel (22") and my old easily drying out eyes  was not the greatest. However, the loads which were fire forming the brass to the chamber (was pretty close to begin with) did show definite preferences for the rifle. 4759 turned out to be the powder of choice and the 2 bullets that worked well with it were the 311291 (3 in .7 inches, 2 in .8, and all 5 in 2" with 15 grains and 4 in 1.4" with 16 grains) and the 311278 (4 in 1.5" with 15 grains and opening up a bit with 16 grains). None of the other bullet powder combinations were of any interest. So I have a good starting point for future testing. The 311278 bullets were cast many years ago of indeterminate metal and I will make up a hard alloy for it for future testing. The 311291 was of my standard 1 to 20 target alloy. The light barrel heated up pretty quickly but did not seem to want to move the groups. Future testing will be with 10 shot groups, .5 grain powder diffs and a better sight picture.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3982
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #1 - Jun 8th, 2015 at 11:08pm
Print Post  
I'll bet that was a thrill. It must be quite a conversation piece, so maybe some days you won't get much shooting in, heh? Glad you got some positive signs out of it, too. The .30US is such great round to shoot. Mine likes 4198 quite a bit, but I haven't tried many other powders in it for quite a while. You have already equaled my best with iron sights. Keep us posted. Pat
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hiwall55
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 468
Location: west central Illinois
Joined: Jun 30th, 2012
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:56am
Print Post  
My Shiloh really likes H-4198 with the lyman 210 grain bullet. I believe the 311284 was first made by Ideal for the 30 US round.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
beltfed
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1826
Location: Central Wi
Joined: Dec 20th, 2007
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:32am
Print Post  
Now you got me going to pull my Ruger No 1 30USA/8.5 twist Obermeyer barrel from the safe.  I have cast some
NOE 311-247 bullets to try in it alongside my 32-40RH 8 twist rifle on a Brg Bpcr
beltfed/arnie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:48am
Print Post  
Yes, 311284 in 1906 was the first gas check design of Hudson and Barlow to try to add oomph to the Hudson I have, 311278, to get over 1500 fps for 600 yard shooting. Here's a nice write up: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) When it all comes together, the Krag will shoot and the long neck makes it easy for cast bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hiwall55
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 468
Location: west central Illinois
Joined: Jun 30th, 2012
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2015 at 1:20pm
Print Post  
Oneatatime thanks for the link. Very informative, I rescued my Sharps at a gun shop in East Peoria,was in the shop for over a year and no one wanted it. Thank God!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:15pm
Print Post  
The pointed bullet seating stem in my die was marking my round nose bullets - actually the bullet was being seated by the bottom edge of the stem engraving the bullet. Wasn't a problem with the 311291 but the ledge left on the 311278 was sufficient to engage the rifling just before the round was fully chambered needing some thumb pushing. I wrote RCBS about getting a 30 caliber round nose stem and got this reply:
WE DO NOT OFFER ROUND NOSE FOR .30 CAL SEAT PLUG. PLEASE SEND IN 3 SAMPLE BULLETS AND WE WILL MAKE YOU A CUSTOM SEAT PLUG TO MATCH YOUR BULLET PROJECTILE - $17.95 AND $4.50 SHIPPING (SALES TAX IS DEPENDING ON YOUR LOCATION). So, odd that they don't have it but good that they will make one, I guess.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #7 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:54am
Print Post  
If the RCBS standard spire point seating stem is cheaper, you could pick up a spare, fill the cavity with epoxy, then seat it gently down on the nose of your 311278 bullet (lightly coat the bullet's nose with paste wax for release from the expoxy once it has set), and you then have a seating stem custom fit to your bullet nose shape.
If you need to adapt to another nose profile later, just heat the seating stem until the epoxy can be removed, and do it over again for the new nose shape.

  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3982
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:45pm
Print Post  
Even easier, since you may use several nose shapes, is to use a small wad of aluminum foil held by a gob of bullet lube that can be picked out and replaced at a moment's notice. I heard of this somewhere, and pooh-poohed the idea. Then, while trying a fat-nosed slug that was doing what yours is, I decided "what the heck" and gave it a whirl. No more epoxy in my seaters now. Just a thought if you want to try it while sorting different bullets in that Krag. Pat
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #9 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 5:04pm
Print Post  
Thanks, I'll give that a try when I recast some bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #10 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:41pm
Print Post  
For reshaping a plug so not to bugger a bullet nose, I have found and use hot glue.  It's a fast way to do the nose and will remain in the plug cavity with no distortion for many lubing's of the reloads
I use hot glue in the seating plug also to not bugger noses
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 12:23am
Print Post  
I'm more inclined to go with the foil in the seating plug because that seating plug and dies and a special can of powder and box of bullets are have long been reserved for a 30-06 Mauser Mannlicher carbine that shoots sub MOA with that combo. I don't want to make any alteration that might screw that performance up. I have the correct top punches for sizing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #12 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 8:38pm
Print Post  
Got around to casting some more bullets. I made up some harder alloy to see if the plainbase Hudson would perform better (and leave a little less lead in the barrel.) I have a quantity of wheel weight ingots that go way back so nothing extra weird in them. I added 8% tin to some of them and it cast some real nice bullets. All loaded up and hoping for a nice morning. I also loaded some 311467 heavy Loverins to try. They are GC but again of some unknown alloy from the past. Should give me an idea if it would like them though.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #13 - Jun 24th, 2015 at 8:15pm
Print Post  
Made it to the range. Still having a problem with the sight picture. The front bead totally covers the orange center of the 200 yard ASSRA target at 100 so I had to try to center using the white outer portions. It will shortly be turned into a nice fine post. 311291 is still in the lead with a 10 shot 1.4x1.7 inch horizontal group at 100 with 15.5 grains of 4759. .5 grain either way opened it slightly. 311467, the Loverin, showed promise in spite of the less than great old castings I had on hand with a 1.5x3 vertical with 15 grains of 4759. It would be nice if I could get a good load with this one as it is the only dual cavity mould in the bunch and greater rate of production would be welcome when casting the quantities needed for cowboy silhouette. I'll try 14 and 14.5 grains next with this one once I cast some quality bullets. Lastly, the harder alloy 311278 Hudsons did make for less of a lead mine but after getting a 2x3 horizontal group with 14.5 grains additional .5 grain increases went to heck probably as they leaded the barrel. I'll have to keep my eyes open for the gas check version, 311284, to really give it its due but meanwhile I'll drop the powder to 13.5 and 14 grains and see what happens.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4482
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: 30-40 in a High-wall
Reply #14 - Oct 15th, 2015 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
Made my final choice. In the past months I picked up a Lyman 311332 and filed the front bead down into a fine post which helped. This week I had a shoot off of the loads I had arrived at with the different bullets and am going to go with the 332 and 14.5 grains of 4759. Runner up was the 291 with 15.3 grains. The sight picture with my old eyes and the short barrel is still not great and I think next time out I'm going to fold the little target aperture out of the old Lyman tang and try the full size hole. Before I shoot the silhouette animals I think I'm going to add a little fluorescent orange spot on the tip of the post so I don't lose the black post on the black target. It's all fun, right?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint