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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter (Read 9805 times)
Litl Red
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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #15 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 4:46am
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shovel80 wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 9:30pm:
BPCR Silhouette Shooters  work to keep the barrel the same for each Shot! Either by Blowtubing after each Shot, or Wiping the bore after each Shot! I don't know any of them who let the fouling build up for a certain amount of shots before wiping...

Terry


Blowtubing introduces moisture into the fouling that is being allowed to remain.   It controls the amount of fouling that is present for the next shot by keeping it soft so the next shot can clear it out.   Basically, they are controlling the amount of fouling that builds up.   If they didn't keep it moist, the harder dry deposits would catch and hold more fouling instead of being blown out.   

Blowtubing is controlling the amount of fouling.   In fact, the amount of blows between shots is another level of control.  It's a response to the amount of fouling that is there.    

Wiping between shots is controlling the amount of fouling.  The amount is none.   Not wiping is controlling in the same way only the amount allowed is one shot's worth.  The number of blows controls how much fouling and how hard it is for the next shot and allows not wiping.

On damp days, fewer blows, etc.   

As for smokeless benchrest, there are plenty of shooters who don't "wipe" between shots but definitely clean during the match.   

semantics?
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2015 at 4:54am by »  
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boats
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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #16 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 7:38am
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New Unique burns cleaner than old Unique. Have a paper 4 lb can marked 2001, loading shotgun shells with it and new plastic 1 lb cans shooting same time you can see the difference in the barrels

4759 if loaded light will show unburied grains of powder in the bore. Get it up to pressure residue, no grains of unburned.

Does it make any difference ? Not worth the trouble to find out. If the load is satisfactory shoot it, if not make changes. I switched from 4759 to 4227 because it measures better.

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #17 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 8:58am
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Boats,  I'm in the process of doing the same,  I have a bunch of 4759, but in an ill advised move sold off both my B&M measures some time ago when I was still shooting 22f as part of my "learning program"   I have 4 or 5 Reddings and have not been able to get consistently accurate "throws" from them with it, so I'm switching to 4227.   If/when I get another B/M Ill go back to using the 4759 in my euro-schuetzens with the stop ring fixed ammo for my offhand shooting.

I've found the clean/dirty discussion interesting and informative.   so far I hear several applications,  one being our 200 yd ASSRA competition where it might matter in precision bench rest, and in offhand where because of all the shooter induced variables it might be immaterial; and in the BPCR side of singleshotdom where "dirt control" is a highly significant factor.  Initially I was not really thinking of BP usage but the discussion is relevant and welcome.

I'd like to toss another into the mix and that is clean/dirty with the 22rfs in ASSRA match context.  The consensus in some of the ultra precision 22rf  Bench rest competition is that a stripped clean-ht-the-bare-metal bore absolutely requires "seasoning" with ironed-on bullet lube by firing x-number of rounds to achieve accuracy.  The majority of the serious rimfire shooters in the ASSRA matches may wipe the bore with a dry patch between relays or at the end of a days shooting--or if they believe accuracy is falling off in a manner not attributable to obvious reasons.   unless changing ammo brands a thorough cleaning may not be done until the end of the season and some who always use the same brand of ammo/lube may NEVER clean to bare metal.  Others of course are almost obsessive about cleaning at the end of every day---the top 22f shooters include members of both schools.
  

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Litl Red
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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #18 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 5:36pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Jun 4th, 2015 at 8:58am:


I'd like to toss another into the mix and that is clean/dirty with the 22rfs in ASSRA match context.  The consensus in some of the ultra precision 22rf  Bench rest competition is that a stripped clean-ht-the-bare-metal bore absolutely requires "seasoning" with ironed-on bullet lube by firing x-number of rounds to achieve accuracy.  The majority of the serious rimfire shooters in the ASSRA matches may wipe the bore with a dry patch between relays or at the end of a days shooting--or if they believe accuracy is falling off in a manner not attributable to obvious reasons.   unless changing ammo brands a thorough cleaning may not be done until the end of the season and some who always use the same brand of ammo/lube may NEVER clean to bare metal.  Others of course are almost obsessive about cleaning at the end of every day---the top 22f shooters include members of both schools.


I used to run a fairly popular IR/50-50 match back when it started up.   The regulars were extremely good at testing things and weren't held back by cost.  The majority of them would have typed your paragraph pretty much word for word.  OK, the one's who could type would have...    I would be so bold to suggest the equipment used and the way it was used reduces the number of variables significantly, at least the ones that don't have anything to do with dirt mattering.

Also, rimfire is unique when it comes to dirty.   22RF rifle bores are virtually the same area as all the 22 centerfires.   While the powder burned is nowhere the volume of those CFs.   And there really aren't any larger calibers we play with that have similar powder/area ratios.      


  
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oughtsix
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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #19 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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I was at the range today, just to get a reading on a .40-65 load,  19. grains  of  brand new SR4759 with a 412gr bullet.  Not a crumb of residue.    graphed at  1220 ft/sec.   Just  carbon fouling on the patch.    I think the advocates of  pressure and  quantity are right.
  

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Re: "clean" vrs "dirty" burning, does it really matter
Reply #20 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 9:28pm
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Think about it gunpowder is just fuel. Wrong fuel = burn rate causes all sort of problems in large marine engines . Take on bunker fuel the ship sends sample to be tested then adjust the injection and turbo boost to suit the fuel.

We do about the same thing loading cartridges charge and bullet weight bring the powder to optional preassure . If you don't have enough pressure its going to burn dirty.

Boats.
  
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