ASSRA Forum › General › Reloading the Single Shot Rifle › 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
(Moderator Group: Moderator)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard (Read 21334 times)
wcf3840
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


ASSRA Life #299

Posts: 383
Location: Palatine
Joined: May 28th, 2007
40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Jun 2nd, 2015 at 7:46pm
Print Post  
Can anyone explain the difference between the 40-63 and the 40-65 Ballard cartridges? Dutcher's book says that the 40-63 came out in 1880 or 1881 to replace the 40-65. He lists the case lengths as the same. Anyone know the difference?
  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7622
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #1 - Jun 2nd, 2015 at 8:26pm
Print Post  
On page 314, he has a chart listing the difference. 

The only difference is the case mouth, diameter.

Frank
  
ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
wcf3840
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


ASSRA Life #299

Posts: 383
Location: Palatine
Joined: May 28th, 2007
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:03pm
Print Post  
Thanks Frank. All I had to do was read a few pages further. Oh, well!!

Matt
  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #3 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 9:31am
Print Post  
One can think of the 40-65 Ballard as a 40-65WCF with a 0.15" longer case.
  
Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1140
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #4 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 5:40pm
Print Post  
The 40/65 is the earlier cartridge and uses the 45/70 case head size of .500" with a .60" diameter rim. The 40/63 or 40/70, which are the same cartridge with a different loading, uses a .470" diameter case head with a rim diameter of .555". Not many cartridges of that time period used cases with that head diameter. The 405 cases can be used to make 40/63 cartridges and 45/90 cases used to make the 40/65. The 40/82 Crossno is a modern rendition of the 40/65 Ballard
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
wcf3840
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


ASSRA Life #299

Posts: 383
Location: Palatine
Joined: May 28th, 2007
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #5 - Jun 4th, 2015 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
Thanks for the replies. I think I understand now.
  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 3:49pm
Print Post  
If it is true that the 40-63 Ballard is the same as the 40-70 Ballard, then it has a nominal volume of 69.28gr of water while the 40-65 Ballard has a nominal volume of 73.98gr of water and the 40-65WCF a nominal 68.52 and the 40-70SS a nominal 72.94. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a 40-65 Ballard reamer to get a bit more volume then with the 40-65WCF (~8% more) for 1000yd shooting.
  
Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 17975
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 4:57pm
Print Post  
The .40-63 and .40-70 Ballard cartridges are the same outside dimensions, but the .40-63 is the thicker Everlasting case, thus the smaller inside volume.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #8 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 5:47pm
Print Post  
Today that would make little difference. Starline & Remington are a bit thicker than Winchester, but don't think I would call them "Everlasting", though all will last through many loadings if not abused.
  
Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
.22-5-40
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 826
Joined: Feb 13th, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #9 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 8:30pm
Print Post  
Can someone measure the head dia. of a modern made .405 Win. case?  It looks to be about .009" smaller than the .470" head dia. of the original .40-70 Ballard case?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1140
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 9:11pm
Print Post  
I measured a new .405 case and it is .459" diameter just in front of the rim. The 9.3 x 74 would be a better choice for the 40/70 Ballard at .465" diameter but they would hard to find and expensive. The 444 Marlin is the right diameter but too short. Same with the 7x57R and 8x57R. There is not much to choose from to make the Ballard cases. The 405 cases are thick brass and should be fine when used with black powder loads. I would not hesitate to use them if I had a 40/70 Ballard. If I were fitting a new barrel I would certainly have the reamer made to use the 405 brass.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
.22-5-40
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 826
Joined: Feb 13th, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #11 - Jun 6th, 2015 at 1:03am
Print Post  
Thanks Deadeye.  I have Bertram .40-70 Ballard brass..made from .45-90.  fits chamber nice..but I'm concerned about the quality.  I did anneal necks.  After I fire form these, I think I'll send sample to RMC Cartridge Co. & have some .40-63 turned up for paper-patching.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartiniBelgian
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1733
Location: Aarschot
Joined: Jun 7th, 2004
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #12 - Jun 6th, 2015 at 2:19am
Print Post  
FWIW, I shoot bertram no.2 musket brass, they have at least 20 loadings each, and the only cases lost were by operator error.  The bigger Bertram cases usually are just fine, and I would definitely prefer them to any turned case.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
coljimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 283
Joined: Nov 10th, 2012
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #13 - Jun 6th, 2015 at 10:58pm
Print Post  
I picked up a nice 40-70 Ballard at a local gun show a while back and fireformed some 30-40 to make slightly short cases (303 brit is shorter still, but works.)  40-63 is simply the everlasting version.  40-65 is a definitely different chamber.  Buffalo Arms now has correct length brass I believe from a sort of 30-40 basic case, that is when they have it.  Got some, haven't tried it yet.
James
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-63 Ballard or 40-65 Ballard
Reply #14 - Jun 7th, 2015 at 7:27am
Print Post  
PTG lists both the 40-63 Ballard & 40-65 Everlasting Ballard in their reamer catalog.
  
Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ASSRA Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge

Page completed in 0.4245 seconds.