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Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) (Read 18034 times)

Dr.Maynard Ex Member	Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 10:39am	Print Post
	Question: Why is there such a high percentage of overt opposition and dissent expressed towards Major Ned H. Roberts (deceased 1948) by present day gun folks? I had been led to believe that Major Roberts and Gerald O. Kelver of the A.S.S.R.A. were respected contemporaries. Dr.Maynard .


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Litl Red Ex Member	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #1 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 11:25am	Print Post
	Baffling news. Got an example? Haven't even seen him mentioned recently?


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #2 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 12:31pm	Print Post
	Ned Roberts was a pretty good writer when writing on muzzleloaders. His book the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle is excellent and a must for any gun owner. His later works on breechloading rifles is really little more than descriptions of various rifles. His second book with Ken Waters has some disastrous and potentially dangerous load information that has never been fixed. To be fair Ned got loads from friends and passed them along apparently never understanding they were wrong. Waters should have known and it is a mystery why he never edited them out. I know that Ned is credited with developing the .257 Roberts but I wonder how much of that was his work and how much was the work other more knowledgeable shooters incorporated in his work. 40 Rod


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3957 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #3 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 1:19pm	Print Post
	I won't say anything against Maj. Roberts, but Ken Waters always will be a trusted scribe. I'm certainly grateful for the two older fellows, long passed, that got me shooting a few of the calibers Roberts and Waters, wrote of in that book. If I'd not had the wisdom of that pair of friends, I might have accepted the inclusion of some of those loads as fair. Could have been dangerous, or at least expensive. To his credit, Waters does occasionally ponder the writings of Roberts in the book- but he ought to have been more concerned with warnings than saving the original info for the sake of history. But, like I said, a couple of old timers had me straight on the things I needed to know- plus they used to give me a lot of bullets when I didn't know the first thing about making a good one.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7640 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #4 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:03pm	Print Post
	If you'll read Harvey Donalsons book, "Yours Truly", composed of his writting in "Handloader" magazine. You get more insight regarding Neds abilty's. There friendship seems to be at least cordial but, strained because of Harvey's opinion of his skill. I would guess that he wasn't the only one. He had poor eyesight and was a poor shooter, at least in part, because of it. Frank EDIT: I'm sorry, I reversed the title of the Donaldson book. I corrected it.
	« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 7:23pm by frnkeore »
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Quarter_Bore Oldtimer Offline Posts: 817 Location: Joined: Dec 16^th, 2005	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #5 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:27pm	Print Post
	Ned Roberts was a great writer and I found that the encouragement which I got from his writing is one of the reasons I became so interested in single shots. Donaldson thought Donaldson was awfully great and told a lot of stories that sound a little overblown. He seems to have had an ego as big as all outdoors.


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Litl Red Ex Member	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #6 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:28pm	Print Post
	40_Rod wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 12:31pm: ......... His second book with Ken Waters has some disastrous and potentially dangerous load information that has never been fixed. .......... According to Water's foreward in Roberts "last book", Waters was asked to edit and complete what was to be Robert's closing sequel to the earlier single shot book? No argument that Waters method of determining maximum pressure is bigtime sketchy. But that was Waters claim to fame for years and years in Handloader.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7640 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #7 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:30pm	Print Post
	Quarter_Bore wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:27pm: Ned Roberts was a great writer and I found that the encouragement which I got from his writing is one of the reasons I became so interested in single shots. Donaldson thought Donaldson was awfully great and told a lot of stories that sound a little overblown. He seems to have had an ego as big as all outdoors. I have to agree about Donalson's ego but, he was a shooter and spanned the Schuetzen to his work in getting modern BR started. Frank

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Litl Red Ex Member	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #8 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:45pm	Print Post
	The topic got me interested enough to try and find some of Roberts dangerous loads. The book Waters completed as co-author includes loads for 25-21, 28-30, 32-40, 33-40, and 38-55. Most loads list black, King's semi-smokeless, and a couple of numbered smokeless I've never seen for sale. There are a couple for 4227 and 4759. I could find modern loads for 32-40 that listed 4759. They were heavier than Roberts suggested. This thread topic is baffling.


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Redwing Oldtimer Offline Posts: 586 Location: Canton Joined: Nov 4^th, 2007	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #9 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:59pm	Print Post
	Howdy !!! I have all of Mr. Roberts book's with the Cap-Lock as my favorite !!! I felt he was an honest man who knew more than I and for that I respected and liked his writing's !!! Acquired/Shot my first Muzzle Loader in "52" and never looked back !!! RIP Major !!! Ed...


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18019 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #10 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 3:12pm	Print Post
	I've never been a muzzle loader shooter, so didn't get Ned Roberts' book on the topic. But I do have other books written be him, and the final book written with Waters. I like his writing, and I'm somewhat surprised by this post, as I hadn't heard derogatory talk about him until this was brought up? I personally was pleased and encouraged in my interest of old single shot rifles and tools, by reading the likes of Ned Roberts and Gerald Kelvar, plus a host of others.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #11 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 5:50pm	Print Post
	Rumor has it as 40Rod has mentioned that there were a couple of single shots also blown up by using the inappropriate data recorded in his book. It would be easy for one to argue that the individuals should have known better but keep in mind that it was one of thee books to go to at the time for a new unknowlegeable shooter starting out in our sport.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1659 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #12 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 6:12pm	Print Post
	Dr. Maynard said: Question: Why is there such a high percentage of overt opposition and dissent expressed towards Major Ned H. Roberts (deceased 1948) by present day gun folks? I don't know where he got that from. Sounds like a Troll to me.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #13 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 6:51pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 2:03pm: If you'll read Harvey Donalsons book, "Truely Yours", composed of his writting in "Handloader" magazine. You get more insight regarding Neds abilty's. There friendship seems to be at least cordial but, strained because of Harvey's opinion of his skill. I would guess that he wasn't the only one. He had poor eyesight and was a poor shooter, at least in part, because of it. Frank I've always been suspicious of Donaldson's veracity on a number of points, and just in the last year I had a conversation with a fellow who actually knew him and shot benchrest with him. Suspicions pretty much confirmed. How that bears on his comments about Ned is open to conjecture. I have the American Rifleman issue wherein Roberts made his first report on the .25 caliber cartridge. He did not gild the lily; it's easy to see that at that point in time the cartridge was a bit of a disappointment as far as accuracy was concerned. That's my $0.05 worth.
	« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 8:49pm by uscra112 »
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Litl Red Ex Member	Re: Major Ned H. Roberts (d.1948) Reply #14 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 7:29pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 5:50pm: Rumor has it as 40Rod has mentioned that there were a couple of single shots also blown up by using the inappropriate data recorded in his book. It would be easy for one to argue that the individuals should have known better but keep in mind that it was one of thee books to go to at the time for a new unknowlegeable shooter starting out in our sport. It's even easier to argue that there doesn't seem to be any inappropriate data recorded in his book. There actually is precious little data there. And his books are basically history accounts, descriptions of rifles and the personalities of his day. The books I have weren't even published until the powders he mentions were no longer being manufactured.
	« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm by »

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