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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Too-hot mold issues advice needed (Read 5101 times)
Pentz
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Too-hot mold issues advice needed
May 26th, 2015 at 1:04pm
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I've been casting for years, mainly solid bullet designs.  Lately, I've been having issues with designs having multiple grooves; they seem vulnerable to temperature spikes that frost the mid-sections (where the mold is densest).  What do folks using these designs do to keep the temps within good fillout ranges?  I'm using a PID for the pot and a wet sponge to cool molds when they get too hot.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #1 - May 26th, 2015 at 1:12pm
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I adjust my speed, or the lead temperature. If my bullets start to show signs of being too hot, I slow down the pace. If that doesn't work, then I turn the pot down a little.
If I have to stop shortly during my casting, I always leave the last bullet poured in the mold, so the mold doesn't get too cold. It helps prevent tossing the first few bullets when I resume.
  

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John Boy
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2015 at 1:41pm
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Pentz, heat the mold and melt up to a temperature where the sprue puddle frosts in 5 to 8 seconds.  Hold the temperature and maintain the same casting rhythm.  They will be completely filled out with with sharp GG bands, sharp base bottoms and look as good as these..
 
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And be sure to start with a clean mold - no smoking required and lube the pins
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 1:48pm by »  
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John in PA
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #3 - May 26th, 2015 at 2:00pm
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Is there any possibility that your alloy composition has changed from previous spec?  That might explain increased tendency to frost. 
Also, is this a long-time mold for you or a new acquisition? 

Agree with others that have said decrease casting rate once mold reaches temperature. Alternatively, drop pot temperature 25 degrees or so once fill-out is achieved, or try a gap of a half inch or so between pot and sprue plate, which usually results in a 20-ish degree drop in metal temp as the stream flows briefly through the air.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #4 - May 26th, 2015 at 5:43pm
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I don't look at frosted bullets as being a bad thing as long as the bullet is completly filled out. Some of my shooting has been with bullets showing a little frosting. I have found that a real pretty looking bullet cast at a lower temperture is more times than not completly filled out.

Just my experiance.
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2015 at 8:20am
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It’s a little hard to tell you don't say what temp you are casting at now or what alloy you are using. In general drop your alloy temperature 10 degrees and slow down the number of bullets per hour. I don't like to use sponges, as water, any water, and hot lead don’t mix well. Develop a good casting rhythm and you won’t need to cool down the mold with water.

40 Rod
  
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Pentz
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2015 at 10:07am
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I appreciate the replies, all spot-on.  The lead composition is 25:1 and it has been working great at 725 degrees for my Hoch 205.  The multiple GG mold is new to me so yes, I'll drop the temps and experiment.  FWIW the Hoch mold is significantly smaller than the  Saeco so it cools quicker.  The heavier Saeco is bigger so retains heat longer.  It is apparent that I may not be able to use both at the same session.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #7 - May 27th, 2015 at 10:10am
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You may be able to use both, but will most likely need to change the rhythm of your casting. So probably need to end one, and then start the other mold.
  

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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2015 at 10:56am
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Pentz wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 1:04pm:
I'm using a PID for the pot and a wet sponge to cool molds when they get too hot.

Pentz
Looking at the image of your two bullets, it appears that neither have sharp edges to their bands and grooves and yet, one of them was frosted and deformed "sucked-in" by an overheated mold. 
Simply put, your alloy and or mold were too cold for the bullet on the left and the mold was too hot for the bullet on the right. 
You just need to learn the pace of that mold. 
I would cast with the alloy a bit hotter, allow the sprue to solidify, and i would wait a few seconds with the mold open before casting another. On such large bullets and 650-700 F alloy, i would guess 15-20 seconds of air cool time with mold open would produce good bullets and avoid frosting.  
I keep each mold in a plastic box and inside each box there are notes on temperature and cooling seconds/pace between pours. You see, i keep pace by counting. 
I also learned to use a 6" fan for cooling. I don't cast such large bullets, but with 350 grain .458" double cavity, at 60F outside air temperature, i cast 700F lead alloy, i wait for the sprue to solidify, i cool 5 seconds in front of the fan, i open the mold, dump bullets, leave open 10 seconds, etc etc   You need to learn these for your own mold/temperature/bullet/alloy. 
I would NOT use the wet sponge, it cools too fast in one end of the mold and you don't have the same temperature of the mold with each casting. I tried the wet rag method and the resulting bullet weights spanned over 3 grains. After learning to pace myself by counting and to cool with air and fan, i now cast 200-500 bullets in one seating and 90% of them are within 1/2 grain of each other.     
  
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #9 - May 27th, 2015 at 9:16pm
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it looks to me to be an alloy that needs a bit of tin. I do have one aluminum mould an nei 4 cavity 458 mound that gets to hot to quick and I can actually cast faster with a 2 cavity mould. I should sell it.
  

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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #10 - May 27th, 2015 at 11:34pm
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argie1891 wrote on May 27th, 2015 at 9:16pm:
it looks to me to be an alloy that needs a bit of tin. I do have one aluminum mould an nei 4 cavity 458 mound that gets to hot to quick and I can actually cast faster with a 2 cavity mould. I should sell it.

You may be absolutely right about the alloy needing tin. 
I have an iron RCBS 325 gr 2 cavity .458 that produces wonderfully accurate bullets in my rifle, but the two cavities are so close together and there is so little metal between them that it took quite a while to learn the casting pace without severe frosting  and deformation Indeed, i have single cavity molds that seem to cast faster. What you describe is the reason why i avoid aluminum molds. Too fussy for me. 
Have you tried alternating the cavities, say pour cavities 1 and 3 first, cut and dump, pour 2 and 4, repeat?. It may speed up casting by avoiding overheating.
  
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Re: Too-hot mold issues advice needed
Reply #11 - May 29th, 2015 at 2:21am
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reason why i avoid aluminum molds. Too fussy for me. 
Have you tried alternating the cavities, say pour cavities 1 and 3 first, cut and dump, pour 2 and 4, repeat?. It may speed up casting by avoiding overheating

I haven't messed with it for a while as I have other moulds that shoot a bit better.
  

if you think you have it figured out  then you just dont understand
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