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Why did Ideal make these molds? (Read 6023 times)

SBoomer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: Michigan's Frozen North (U.P.) Joined: Jan 28^th, 2010	Why did Ideal make these molds? May 19^th, 2015 at 9:33am	Print Post
	I am curious as to why Ideal made several .25cal bullet molds in the 120-140gr weight. I have never seen anything in print (new or old) describing anyone using these extreme weights in a quarter bore. I wonder if it were a sales gimmick or if there was actually a use? The bullet shown in the pic is from my 25717 mold and casts a full 140gr bullet in #2. It measures 1.055” long and as cast measures .261”.Note that the three molds shown in the Ideal Handbook cut were all available in the 140gr range. What rifles could have possibly stabilized these long bullets? Not saying any were used in this rifle but the tightest twist in any of my old .25’s is the Remington Model 14 at just over 9.5”. I am anxious to hear from you guys on these bullets.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7627 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #1 - May 19^th, 2015 at 1:34pm	Print Post
	Note that your mold is marked as to be used in the 25/35. The 25/35 has a standard twist rate of one turn in 8". Another aspect of the mold, is that it's very common in the "Perfection" (adjustable, nose pour) mold and in that mold, you can have almost any weight/length you want. So, that makes it a kind of univeral mold design. Frank
	« Last Edit: May 19^th, 2015 at 1:39pm by frnkeore »
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SBoomer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: Michigan's Frozen North (U.P.) Joined: Jan 28^th, 2010	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #2 - May 19^th, 2015 at 1:55pm	Print Post
	Thank you Frank for the twist info. Any idea what twist Marlin used on the 25-36? I am familiar with the Perfection molds as I have (2) of them. The 25717 mold shown in the pic casts the full 140gr bullet(not a Perfection adjustable). I just thought it odd that Ideal would even make this. I bought it off EBay and when it came see that it has never been used and was brand new! I have yet to see any reloading books (new or old) that list anything heavier than 120gr for ANY .25caliber. Has anyone here played with 120-140gr 25's in their single shots?


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Litl Red Ex Member	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #3 - May 19^th, 2015 at 2:32pm	Print Post
	Could possibly be for black powder? From the start of offhand competition, there was a constant move toward smaller calibers. 45s went to 40s went to 38 went to..... and smokeless came along. Smokeless wouldn't have needed so many grease grooves. Black didn't really need loading manual support. Just guessing of course.


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #4 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:17pm	Print Post
	Barnes says the 25-36 Marlin had a 9 twist.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17978 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #5 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 4:02pm	Print Post
	uscra112 wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:17pm: Barnes says the 25-36 Marlin had a 9 twist. Brophy also shows the .25-36M as 1-9" twist. Since the Ideal catalog lists those two as the .25-36M and .25-35, then my guess is that's what they were intended for. The 1893 Marlin lever action, and the 1894 Winchester lever action.

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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2997 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #6 - May 23^rd, 2015 at 2:05am	Print Post
	Back in 1967, I ordered Lyman 285221, not realizing that it was one of those with multiple weights, where the buyer was supposed to order by weight. Lyman sent the mould for the heaviest bullet, 175 grains. I cast a few and tried one shot in my 28-30. At 50 yards, the bullet went through the target sideways. I then tried it in a 7x57 Remington #5 military roller. The flat nose and wide shoulder did not seat properly. If I got it to fit in the chamber, the base of the bullet was well below the base of the neck, extending into the powder space. This bullet would have required a pretty quick twist (9" or so). Does anyone have an idea of the original application?


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John in PA Oldtimer Offline Posts: 590 Location: Hollidaysburg, PA Joined: Nov 3^rd, 2009	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #7 - May 23^rd, 2015 at 7:07pm	Print Post
	Weren't they available with an adjustable base plug that allowed the shooter to cast bullets of varying weights?

	John Wells Hollidaysburg, PA Peabody and Peabody-Martini's Wanted!
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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2997 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #8 - May 23^rd, 2015 at 8:17pm	Print Post
	AFAIK, not in the 1960s.


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Dr Tom Ex Member	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #9 - May 23^rd, 2015 at 8:20pm	Print Post
	Waterman - 7 x 57 export (Mexico, Peru etc.) Mausers had an 8.9 inch twist. The standard RN FMJ was 175 gr. When I was a kid (back before the invention of clocks) you could buy 7 x 57 hunting ammo with as 175 gr RN SP. I have a few rounds in a Peters blue box somewhere.


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2997 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #10 - May 23^rd, 2015 at 10:12pm	Print Post
	285221 is a semi-wadcutter, a cylinder with a short flat point. The diameter at the wadcutter band is greater than the diameter-at-ogive points of the 175 grain jacketed round nose bullets. I still have some of those old 175 cast bullets somewhere. If I can find them, I will make up some 7x57 dummies and provide measurements.


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Obsidian Junior Member Offline Posts: 64 Location: California Joined: Mar 5^th, 2015	Re: Why did Ideal make these molds? Reply #11 - May 24^th, 2015 at 11:50pm	Print Post
	Those bullets look like the type designed by Guy Loverin a long time ago. they might work well in cartridges like the 25 Krag. They may be a little long for the 257 Roberts, but might work with that too.


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