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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened?? (Read 27868 times)
JLouis
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #45 - May 20th, 2015 at 10:46pm
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Be alot more easier to just buy an RCBS Charge Master and probably cheaper too.
  

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RonJonUSN
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #46 - May 21st, 2015 at 2:06pm
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No doubt.  But it looked to be an interesting project.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #47 - May 21st, 2015 at 7:36pm
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Ron, I have an elderly AMT powder measure that uses two "tricklers", one is high-speed and it shuts off when the beam on the scale below it approaches the set amount, where the slow trickler finishes the load by reading the beam's position. It is quite accurate, and cannot cut the coarsest powder stick, but very slow to load many cases with this thing. I found it very useful when you want to load a few cases with each setting, and then move up or down by a little like we do when load development is the intent. You don't need to adjust both a measure and a scale. But, it was a pain waiting for each load to hit the pan. The German one shown here doesn't look like anything but attention to the beam would keep it from being a lot more variable, since the shaker (?) might dribble extra just as it decides to halt. You know what I mean- I hope. Anyhow, I don't use that old thing much anymore, and I would be scared s----less using that thing with the electric switch sparking right next to my powder pan! Good luck to you if you build it.  Pat
  
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RonJonUSN
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #48 - May 21st, 2015 at 10:48pm
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Ha!  The spark and the can of gunpowder!  You are right about that.  Like the poster before me said, just go buy a new, modern dispenser.  Was not ever serious about building the thing, just thought it to be interesting.
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #49 - May 21st, 2015 at 11:30pm
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Here is a powder measure that David Tubbs , a highpower champion used.

A Scale is a Scale--Or Is It? By Brand Cole, Prometheus Tool Corp.

I was approached by the folks at 6mmBR.com to provide a Prometheus scale for testing. I did not at this time have a demo unit to send out, and was curious about the testing protocol being envisioned. That conversation led to this article. It will be kept basic, with concepts presented but not mathematically proven. For that you may consult a statistics text.

Manufacturing uses statistics to predict the dimensions (measurements) of a population (all units produced) based on measuring a sample (the few parts you actually measure). In this instance we are "manufacturing" weighed powder charges, and want to know how "accurate" the population of the charges will be by measuring a small sample. These charges will typically follow what is called a "normal distribution". This is the same thing as the old "bell curve" that was used in school to grade on the curve. You may have heard the term "standard of deviation" (SD). Most any scientific calculator today will calculate the SD once you input the raw data points. If you take the mean (average, or (X)) of your sample, and add to that plus and minus three (3) times the SD you will capture or describe 99.7% of the entire population. This technique is known as "Six Sigma" since the Greek letter sigma is used as a symbol for SD. Six-Sigma is a fairly standard technique in many manufacturing firms. There are some parameters that must be followed here, including sample size. This is a topic in and of itself, but the bigger the sample, the more accurate your results will predict the population. In most SPC work in manufacturing, between 5 and 10 pieces are typically sampled to look for trends in the dimension. There is more here.

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calledflyer
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #50 - May 22nd, 2015 at 12:22pm
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Kurt, that's quite a measure/scale isn't it? I think that the precision weighing of powder is fully worth doing, but sure can't afford that-wish I could try one just for grins. I do try to measure, and confirm my loads of fast powder (not so much worry with 80gr. of super-slow where a tenth is statistically negligible). I would like to see us start a thread on ways to keep loads precise, with both measures and scales used. It's part of why I like loading at home instead of the range.
And, It's time to ask Zeke if he's made any progress toward getting his rifle to behave and shoot well. Pat
  
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westerner
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #51 - May 25th, 2015 at 8:39am
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Powder charges I throw at the range are just as accurate as home thrown charges. With the added advantage, being able to change charges and components as conditions might require. Fixed ammo made at home is a huge dis advantage at a bench rest match. Standing, not so much. 

Hunter? Fixed ammo of course. Jacketed bullets a big advantage here in the West. 

I have a RCBS powder measure like the one pictured above. Most inaccurate measure I own. Terrible. Good enough to dump powder on a scale. 

          Joe.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #52 - May 25th, 2015 at 5:50pm
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I agree that loading at the range is flexible. But, weighing things in a windy place is awkward. I do it, sometimes, with the pair of rifles that I breech seat in. But, I like to load fixed to try to find uses for powder/bullet combos in those rifles too. No point in not loading at home, and I don't need to take anything but a notebook to the range. One of my current "projects" is seeing just  how far away fixed loads really are from BS in a High Wall with a factory throat- and in this rifle it's pretty doggone close with some loads. It's all just for fun anyhow, aint it? I agree that my RCBS is not very accurate with stick powder, and a carefully used Ideal is generally better. I wish I could afford to use some others- but I'd probably still weigh the charges, so it wouldn't matter unless I got something better than I seem to hear about (read: expensive, too). I like tinkering with  my ammo, so it's fine with me. I like the process  as much as the shooting. Pat
  
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #53 - May 25th, 2015 at 6:38pm
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Wind at the range a problem that affects powder measuring?

It's one heck of a lot less problem verifying charges if you use a digital scale to verify.    And wind really doesn't affect the way measures work as the wind can't begin to get inside any measure a sensible person chooses to use outside.

How you process the powder also solves problems.    Set the case on the digital that's sitting under the measure.  Tare the scale.   Raise the case to the measure and drop the charge.  Set it back down on the digital and read it.    

Would you need to test in high wind?  For what?  Accuracy?   

Testing loads at the range are fun to do.  And if you're sensible, you can easily get solid data sensibly.
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #54 - May 25th, 2015 at 6:55pm
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  No powder scale is reliable in even the slightest breeze.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 11:56am by Jeff_Schultz »  

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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #55 - May 25th, 2015 at 7:30pm
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Might have a problem with a Belding and Mull measure in heavy wind. 

Did you mean powder scales, Jeff?

No need to weigh powder charges at home or at the range. Unless of course using coarse grained powders or when using my RCBS powder measure, for anything 

       Joe. 

« Last Edit: May 25th, 2015 at 7:39pm by westerner »  

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calledflyer
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #56 - May 26th, 2015 at 12:07am
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No, I don't shoot in high winds, though we get 'em often. I just meant weighing in any sort of breeze at all. We get that nearly all the time. It's only six or eight minutes out there for me to go. So, I just wait it out when it blows harder. I don't have any trouble with the measure that I don't have at home also, just no reliable way to trickle up and weigh. That's also slow. I never thought about the taring a case and then measuring it's weight, but trickling would still be problematic, or do you have some idea there as well? I'm all ears here and if it looks like I can improve anything, anything at all I may just try it. Pat
  
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #57 - May 26th, 2015 at 12:49am
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A Harrel Measure and a suitable ball powder and your problems are solved. A note book of settings is all you need either at home or at the range and the only use for a scale would be to obtain the settings for range you wish to work in.
  

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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #58 - May 26th, 2015 at 11:20am
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Yes, a ball powder is easier since it uses less weighing at the range or home since it meters much more accurately. I use 4227 at the range and metering with it is just fine. I guess I ought to have been more concise in stating my troubles stem from trying to weigh each charge of powders like 4759 (the original powder causing the overloads for Zeke)... I can't bring myself to not weigh each charge with that stuff- you might as well use a spoon to load with! So, if I seemed like a dolt, sorry, I just dropped a point of explanation. My loading techniques are actually pretty good. I wouldn't mind having a Harrels measure and using it like John says. But, it wouldn't solve the need to weigh with many of those "other" powders that some of us prefer. On to another subject than wind for me. I'm going to try one other idea presented above, using 4227 powder, though. Pat
  
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Re: Heavy overloads in 32-40. What happened??
Reply #59 - May 26th, 2015 at 11:55am
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Did you mean powder scales, Jeff?


Yes I did. Sorry
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

“There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse."

  Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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