zeke wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 10:39am:


First, if you shoot lead bullets, i suggest that you don't clean the bore. No need to. I clean once or twice when i try a new bullet or alloy, to check for lead deposits. If there are none, i stop cleaning, i even stop looking into the bore. If there are lead shavings or residue on the patches, i use a bigger and harder bullet.
Yes, 4759 tends not to burn completely in that load. For a cleaner burn, try magnum rifle primers and bullets 0.001" larger with a stiffer crimp. The increased pressure will burn the powder more completely and more cleanly. A5744, at 15 grains, is also very accurate and just as incomplete and dirty burning. 
I shoot 3 different 32-40s with  3-4 powders. I like Unique (8.5 grains) the best. It is extremely dirty burning, but accurate. I rarely clean, and even then i only clean the chamber and throat, maybe push just a dry patch down bore, no need to scrub.  I don't get un-burned powder left in the bore with Unique, though. 
The load that you describe will shoot better when the bore is dirty, if your bullet is up to snuff and fitting. Why clean? Now you have to get that bore dirty again to make it shoot. 
I have also noticed that my rifles prefer different diameter bullets depending on whether the bore is clean or fouled. On clean bores, my rifles shoot best bullets 0.001" larger than what they prefer when they are fouled. This is for the first 50 shots or so. After fouling, they like bullets 0.001" smaller. You need to see what your rifle likes.

JLouis wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 1:05pm:

But with lubed bullets we change the oil (grease) with every shot. 
True, carbon residue may accumulate. This is why i suggested to learn what the rifle wants, rather than clean because the owner wants to clean.  More rifling has been worn or damaged by cleaning   than any other cause, except corrosive primers.
In fact, the lube and the carbon get into the bore and smooth out any imperfections in there. At some point groups will open up (100 shots or 1,000 shots later), and that would be the time to clean. Gently. 
Respectfully yours,
Birty Dore

JLouis wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:38pm:


Patches and solvents, only? Whatever you are doing works for you, obviously. That must be a pristine hand lapped bore. 
It may be different with old, worn, pitted, rough bores.

Adrian the barrel is your everyday day Douglas XX and nothing special. Since day one it has been cleaned with JB Bore Paste and a home brewed solvent very similar per say to Ed's Red. The term "Wipe it like a Baby's Butt until it is clean" came from Gail Schuttleworth at CPA when asked how one should care for one of their barrels. After fifteen years of cleaning when looking down the bore it shines like a parabolic mirror and is still extremely competitive so that method of cleaning has worked for me. I would tend to assume the rough pitted bores you speak of are the result of a lack of cleaning, not enough or improper cleaning and a lack of protection after cleaning over the years?

It is not in my rifles. 
It varies from other IMR powders in only one respect.
If the pressure is not up to about 20,000 PSI it will leave a few unburned grains of powder in the bore. If you jack up the pressure a little these grains go away especially in a 30" barrel. 

If you have a lot of goo I would suspect your lube or your cleaning process. All I do is wipe the bore with a couple of patches wet with Hoppe's and let it stand a few days. Then I wipe it with a couple of more wet patches a couple of dry patches and then another couple of wet patches. That is all.  My bullet lube is the ordinary Alox/Beeswax mix. 
I have used SR4759 in everything from a 30-30, 38-55, 375 Win, 40-65 and multiple 45-70s with cast bullets and from a 30-30 to a .375 H&H with jacketed bullets. 

It kind of sounds like you have a very soft steel barrel and the black stuff you are seeing is the barrel steel being removed by the brush. If so you will never see a clean patch as long as you keep wire brushing that bore.

zeke wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 10:39am:

I shoot 13.6 gr of 4759 behind a 185 gr breech seated bullet in my Green Mtn rebarreled original high wall.  I use my own homebrew lube that is mostly beeswax and lanolin with just a touch of other stuff and at the end of the day I run a single dry patch through my filthy looking barrel leaving it clean and shiny.  If you are doing it right, the barrel looks dirty while it is shooting, but that residue is loose and wipes out easily.

This is my personal experience, of course, but I think it is not unique by any stretch.

Froggie

I'm curious to know what lube is use for th bullets in the case of the black 

Is the lube an odd duck, some grease base rather than more traditional lines of beeswax carnauba, etc?

There are many lube recipes it there, some with moly auto grease, white lithium, etc. 

Could this be a case of funky lube rather than powder fouling?


I'll add this: from my time in the cba I've learned that's eds red is my friend, jb paste is an extreme, my patches never come it white and I refuse to use a brush on anything except a new barrel acquisition, new to me, used condition. 

That's it. No brushes. I shoot some good groups. Barrels shine like mirrors. But patches of eds red will always come out pink with a grey mark, I never sterilize the barrel.