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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carbon fouling (Read 19808 times)
JLouis
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #15 - Apr 9th, 2015 at 6:02pm
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Amen Jeff it amazes me where they come up with some of these untruths. My CPA 32-40 Douglas barrel has over 144,000 bullets down the bore and has been cleaned with JB from day one. I just recently set a new ASSRA 5-5 Shot 100yd. group average with that barrel. I might also add that I do not use it sparingly, I use as much as it takes to maintain a carbon free bore to the best of my ability. I was strongly advised to start
using JB by Barry Darr the barrel maker when I started in this sport some 15 + years ago.

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JLouis
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #16 - Apr 9th, 2015 at 6:10pm
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In regards to primers and carbon prime an empty case put it the chamber point it in a safe direction and pop it in a clean barrel and then clean the barrel and I think you will be quite surprised on how much fouling comes out!

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gunlaker
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #17 - Apr 9th, 2015 at 6:27pm
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 at 4:29pm:
How much of that ring in the throat is primer residue?  I ask only because I had an experience some years ago with that Aguila primer-only ammo in an old Hopkins and Allen plinker.  Boy howdy, that stuff left a hard ring that took days of soaking with Hoppes or Ed's Red to get it loose enough to brush out.   


I have no idea to be honest.  On the patch it looks jet black and is very dry.  I'm using CCI BR2's.

Chris.

  
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40_Rod
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #18 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 9:26am
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I'm going to side with Jan on this one over cleaning your barrel is just as bad as leaving the powder fouling. I have always treated my lead bullet barrels like .22 rimfire barrels. For the most part I clean once a day. I clean until the fouling is out and all I have on the patch is some cooked lube. 
Some powders give more fouling than others 4759 is notorious for shooting dirty. With powders like that I will run a wet patch down through bore and then a dry patch every 20 to 30 shots depending on weather. Then I shoot two foulers and go back to work.
I have used Ed’s red for years now and have found it to be as good or better than most commercial solvents and a lot cheaper.

40 Rod
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #19 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 10:26am
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I will try cleaning every other target this weekend and see how it works.

Last night I used a little of the JB bore paste and got the rest of the carbon out with not too much work.  I'm sure if I stay on top of it, I'll be in better shape.

Chris.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #20 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 10:44am
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Chris weather conditions and location seem to dictate the amount of carbon fouling. Some days it gets real bad out my way and other days not as bad. One just needs to keep an eye on it and clean accordingly and your approach would be a good one. 

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #21 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 10:59am
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A specific carbon remover like M-pro 7 would definitely help in getting the stuff out without requiring any abrasive action.
  
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Aonghas
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #22 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 11:08am
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nuclearcricket wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 at 12:55pm:
Carbon can and does build up when using smokeless powder. I don't think that most shooters really notice it as they hunt and shoot a few rounds a year. When shooting competition and/or service rifles you will see a lot of carbon. Especially in gas operated rifles. Thats why it takes 3 days of cleaning to get all the carbon out of an AR type rifle. One solvent that I have found that does a good job and isn't expensive is Ed's Red. I used that to clean up some safe queens last fall and I found one that hadn't been cleaned or shot in probably close to 2 decades and it had a lot of carbon in it. Some work with Eds Red and a brush and the stuff came right out. I was impressed. 
Any more I think I would rather deal with the deposits from Black than I would the carbon from smokeless.
Sam


The 'Monkeytail' (capping breechloader) system had a fairly good way of dealing with fouling: the first shot was from a clean barrel. The second (and subsequent) shot(s) cleared the fouling with the wad which sealed the breech.

Method: insert round (bullet attached to nitrated paper case, which held the powder.
Follow  round with wad.
Close breech, place cap on nipple.
Fire!

The second round is put in, pushing the in-situ wad in front of the bullet. This scrapes clean the bore (theoretically) for the next shot.

I believe that the 1,000 yards Open at Bisley was won by a Westley Richards monkeytail one year, though IIRC the bore was wiped through after each shot.

(I really want a Monkeytail!)

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Aonghas
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #23 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 11:11am
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ClaMar wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 at 1:45pm:
Gunlaker,

I've shot quite a lot of .30-06 and .303 cast bullet loads.  Gas-check bullets, which may be different than yours, but no trace of carbon buildup in several years of use with no cleaning.  I was using the same home-brew lube as in my BPCR's at the time-pure yellow beeswax with neatsfoot oil (about 60/40).

I've since used the same lube in a .45-70 with smokeless and haven't noticed carbon buildup in 100 rounds or more.

Clarence


I've never noticed any build-up when using cordite as a propellant.

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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #24 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 12:18pm
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Chris
When I get an older gun in here that is so packed full of fouling that it looks shot out I cork the muzzle and fill the barrel with the same carbon remover we use on the ships to clean carbon deposits off the injector nozzles. It works amazingly well at completely liquifying the deposit and it has to be absolutely non etching as even the slightest corrosiveness would destroy the injector. But sadly it is a commercial product so there is no chance you can just run out and buy it in a retail setting. But it might be food for thought if there are similar retail products.

I agree with Mr Louis
JB bore will not harm your barrel. In fact diligent use can greatly improve a barrel. I use lots of it on the barrels I send out of here. Both JB Bore and JB Bright. After lapping every barrel gets a thorough polishing with JB products and I send a sample out with every barrel for the user to condition the bore during break in.

Two of my barrels won the USFT and the Extreme Benchrest Open last year. Your more than welcome to verify these claims for yourself.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #25 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 12:52pm
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gunlaker wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 at 6:27pm:
uscra112 wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 at 4:29pm:
How much of that ring in the throat is primer residue?  I ask only because I had an experience some years ago with that Aguila primer-only ammo in an old Hopkins and Allen plinker.  Boy howdy, that stuff left a hard ring that took days of soaking with Hoppes or Ed's Red to get it loose enough to brush out.   


I have no idea to be honest.  On the patch it looks jet black and is very dry.  I'm using CCI BR2's.

Chris.



Chris,
This may be part of your problem. 4759 is a uncoated powder and although it dosen't burn completely until a certain pressure is reach, it's very easy to ignite.

Try Rem 2 1/2 primers, if you don't have them, use the weakest pistol primer that you can find, I like F150's as a second choise.

In my testing, the pistol primer were always more accurate with 4759, too.

Frank
« Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2015 at 1:32pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #26 - Apr 10th, 2015 at 2:44pm
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My n.o.s. 1919 5 groove military match barrel gets a couple of dry patches after each match where I fire 60 or more 200 gr cast and checked bullets lubed with 50/50 alox/beeswax.   Powder is 16.5 2400.  Cleaning to metal requires 30 rounds or so to get shooting again.
  HBO and 4227 burn well for me and a couple of dry patches leave my bore sweet and clean in the 32-20.   Of course my 32-20  experience is scant; chamber residue bothers me but I'm still fire forming and working up to full obturation.  Lube may contribute to fouling get issues more than powder.
  

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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #27 - Apr 11th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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My barrels take longer to clean when using LilGun. I've always assumed it has more graphite coating. Graphite = carbon?   

Have not seen any carbon fouling in my barrels. Not sure I could identify carbon either. 

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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #28 - Apr 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm
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A couple of years ago I had a terrible problem with carbon fouling with Accurate #9 in a 32-40 I didn't realize what it was at first but knew that something was really wrong. About the time I was reading on a bench rest forum and the subject came up and one of the people there suggested running a tight nylon brush down the bore all the way out and then come back when you hit carbon the brush stops!!! And it does stop it's just about impossible to pull it on through the carbon and that is usually located in  the bottom third of the barrel depending on how much carbon fouling that you have. Since then I do run a nylon brush down the bore and back just to check and it will quickly tell you if you have carbon build up or not.

RB
  
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Re: Carbon fouling
Reply #29 - Apr 11th, 2015 at 8:57pm
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RB,
Have you found ANYTHING that delays or lessons the carbon build up, like primers or lube or?

Frank
  

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