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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 32-20 CPA Pressure signs? (Read 8552 times)
Pentz
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32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Apr 3rd, 2015 at 5:46pm
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Just finished fire-forming cases with 4227 and a Hoch 200 gr bullet, 25:1 through my new CPA.  The first 100 in fact..  Although I an experienced 30 cal. reloader I'm a bit nervous with these small-case high pressure loads. 
   I'm getting pressure signs with CCI SP primers at 11.8 to 12.2 gr of IMR 4227, altho cases are not sticking (yet?) with the first firing.   Enclosed is a photo of one of the 12.2 cases; the 11.8 is very similar.    

  I got sub-MOA groups at 100 yards with 11 gr. of W296 averaging 1250 FPS.  Primers are very flat althou not as cratered.

I'd appreciate any advice and observations.  Still looking for AA9 and 4100 out here on the left coast.
  

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firearmdoc
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:02pm
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Opinions may vary, but I don't think you're getting high pressure signs. It looks to me like the firing pin is a poor fit in the breech block and the primer is flowing back around the firing pin.  The primer looks fine otherwise.

Jesse
  
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:22pm
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My experience after many years of shooting heavy bullets with a .32-20 case and 4227 is to stick around 10 grains.  FWIW.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:53pm
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I think that I have to agree with firearmdoc. The primers are still fully round at the edge of them.

My wife shoots 10.2 gr 296 with a 180 gr (.308) bullet and the edges look the same as yours but, it's not high pressure. I did a QL on that load and it was about 30K.

Since the firing pin strike is so far out, I think I'd contact CPA to fix both problems.
Frank
  

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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 8:17pm
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I load the .32-20 CPA with 13.0 grains of AA4100.  The mv is about 1500 fps.

It takes three firings to properly form the case.  At about 8 firings, accuracy drops off and I look for signs of incipient case head separation.  No case has lasted more than 12 firings at this load.

Despite the rough treatment, I've never experienced primer cratering.

FWIW, I cannot get the the .32-20 CPA to adequately perform with milder loads. 

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uscra112
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm
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frnkeore wrote on Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:53pm:
I think that I have to agree with firearmdoc. The primers are still fully round at the edge of them.

My wife shoots 10.2 gr 296 with a 180 gr (.308) bullet and the edges look the same as yours but, it's not high pressure. I did a QL on that load and it was about 30K.

Since the firing pin strike is so far out, I think I'd contact CPA to fix both problems.
Frank


I just ran your 296 load thru my QL, and only got 15,000 psi calculated.   Huh   Assuming breech seated.   Have you chrono'd the load?

O.P.'S load ran just short of 20,000.
  

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JLouis
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 9:25pm
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Try Small Rifle primers the Pistol's have very soft cups.
  

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JLouis
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #7 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 9:30pm
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In regards to the off center strikes just have Gail send you the proper length link to center it up. That is if it is striking at either at 12 or 6 oclock she has quite a variety.
  

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Pentz
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #8 - Apr 3rd, 2015 at 11:15pm
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All good info, thanks.  A very steep learning curve for me.  I will send off the pic to Gail and follow up.  All of your help is appreciated.  FWIW Starline has posted up that their 32-20 should be online April 10.  I've ordered 500 cases.
  

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boats
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #9 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 5:24am
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Opinion with no facts, and agreeing with the other members.

Fire forming the case hits the breechblock harder than a formed case.  And That pressure is probably at the top edge of SP primers limit.

If it was mine I would run a quick test formed cases Small rifle primers working up the powder charge before I changed anything about the gun itself.  Establish the limits then back down and go up again with SP.

Like the guys said link in a CPA establishes the pin strike location, it can be tweaked, although it's something I never worry about in mine.

Boats.
  
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #10 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 7:15am
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Hammer rebound........increase the main spring a bit.
  
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rkaires
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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #11 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 7:37am
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I agree on using small rifle primers. Two loads for my 32-20CPA are 11.7 of #9 and 12.7 of 4100 with up to a 210gr bullet. In both these loads I've used CCI BR4, Wolf SR and Remington 7 1/2 primers without any cratering.

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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #12 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 9:56am
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A couple of additional questions of those shooting .32-20CPA:
Has altitude differential been considered with respect to load?
Isn't it possible, or even likely, that my 12.5GR of 4100 at 2,400 ft. above sea level will produce comparable results to a 12.7 - 12.9GR load at lesser elevations?  (My chrono says "Yes!") 
When cases start becoming tight to remove after firing, has anyone resorted to full length re-sizing (for the body), expanding the necks and flaring the mouth for precise chamber fit?
JackHughs ....... I'm told that a bunch of the "Modesto .32-20CPAs" have been re-chambered to .32-40; but, yours is in the safe. Have you achieved better results with the .32-40; or might we see the .32-20CPA return?
  

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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #13 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 1:19pm
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 3rd, 2015 at 9:00pm:
frnkeore wrote on Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:53pm:
I think that I have to agree with firearmdoc. The primers are still fully round at the edge of them.

My wife shoots 10.2 gr 296 with a 180 gr (.308) bullet and the edges look the same as yours but, it's not high pressure. I did a QL on that load and it was about 30K.

Since the firing pin strike is so far out, I think I'd contact CPA to fix both problems.
Frank


I just ran your 296 load thru my QL, and only got 15,000 psi calculated.   Huh   Assuming breech seated.   Have you chrono'd the load?

O.P.'S load ran just short of 20,000.


Yes, BSed. My load runs 1408 fps, in a 26" bbl, using 7 1/2 primers. The bullet is 1.16 long.

Frank
« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2015 at 1:25pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: 32-20 CPA Pressure signs?
Reply #14 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 2:09pm
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Your very close, Phil. At the top of the page, I have Pmax [MAP] at 30,458 (BAR 2100), I guess that stuck in my mind  Embarrassed So, I ran QL again, changing the Cross section, bore area to what it gives for a 30/30. My BS depth is .010 ahead of the case. But, that is only 1254 fps with 10.2 gr, 296 (10,923 PSI). I had to increase the charge to 11.6 to get close to my velocity (1408/1410 fps). That gave me a pressure of 14,664 PSI. 

I ran the QL about a year ago and I also measured the case volume and put that in the program at that time (22 gr water)

Frank

  

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