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Bulseyetom
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Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Mar 25th, 2015 at 7:03pm
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I just had hip surgery so I have way too much time on my hands during rehab.  I boxed up my 044 1/2 this am to send off to CPA for a new barrel and learned quite a bit about wildcats on this board while discussing options.  Ialso have a 44 1/2 that I am contemplating sending off for a second barrel.  The current barrel is for all practical purposes a 219 Zipper improved necked up to 6mm.  I think I need a larger caliber for mule deer and was not wanting to mess with changing extractors so I had talked myself into a 7x30 Waters.  After learning about how easy Whidden can furnish a die for a wildcat I am now thinking if I want the most volume then maybe I should go with the 303 Savage case necked down and blown out  since the base is larger on the 303 case.  I need to keep the pressure around 38000 so the 307 Win or 7mm STE are out of the question.  Any thoughts on this wildcat?  Thanks.  Tom
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #1 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 7:36pm
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TOM:
    In return for a miniscule increase in case capacity, you would be buying yourself a LOT of trouble coming up with 303 S. brass. 'Way better to stick to 7-30 Waters.   
    In the past, I made up some 40-40 Wesson cases out of 303 S, and it was hard enough to find cases then.   Last batch is made out of turned-down 30-40's, which will do for the low pressure rounds, but probably not for what you contemplate.
    The 7-30 is more of a known quantity, and as such would be more saleable, if it came to that.

CHRIS
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #2 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 8:46pm
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I'm a big nut for the 6.5 cartridges Cheesy especially with fast twists and longer heavy bullets.  great accuracy and they tend to punch well above their bore class.  I have one rifle in 260 rem with a 1/8 twist barrel.  Seated out in a single shot it'd make a great game rifle in w/160 gr bullets.   I have another euro-rifle in 6.5x57. and another "in progress" for a custom ruger offhand cast-bullet rifle using a 25-35 case necked up to .264/6.5.
  
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boats
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #3 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 9:07pm
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2nd Chris and after having several CPA's on the 38/55-30/30 basic case.  7-30 Walters would be a very good choice. Easy form easy to obtain brass and bullets.

I have a 25 Krag and while I like it working up the brass was a real puzzle, solved now but if all I wanted to do is load and shoot, it would have been a poor choice.

Mule Deer being larger than White Tails and stepping up from the 38/55 head size case why not a 30/40 It's a near perfect CPA action cartridge, 308 Win case capacity great deer cartridge  Chamber it for shorter bullets than Army spec .30 USA with the long throat, 150 G like a 308 would be set up.

Sum up is either the .30/40 or 30/30 case then pick your bore and bullet.

BTW changing CPA extractors is quick and easy if you are set up right. Back off on the Breech Block Plunger first then use a tapered pin to align everything slipping in the pin after. Then put the Breech Block Plunger and spring tension back on to suit how you want the lever to snap in place.

Boats
  
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #4 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 9:19pm
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303 brass is rare and lots of work. Why don't you consider a 6.5mm x30-30. It would do great on mule deer. Brass easy to find. Look into the cartridges made by EABCO rifle company, they are reporting some awesome performance out of their 6.5. 
Flat shooting, great hunting bullets, easy to find brass, not too much powder, great ballistics and penetration, what's not to like?
  
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #5 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 10:19pm
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I bought a Sav 1899 in 303 Savage , a couple of years ago. It took me almost a year to get enough brass for it (about 60). The sources where gun shows and friends.

Like Boats, I would go with the 30/40 case and make the reamer to 7X 57 specs with the 30/40 case head and lengthen the shoulder out so the neck is the same length. That way, you can use the 7 X 57 loading data, as is.


Frank
  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #6 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 11:40pm
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I have found a source for new 303 brass so that is not an issue.  I have a 7mm Krag but in a varmint weight rig that is really not fun to pack on all day deer treks.  It works great on hogs though.  Obviously the 7x30 waters makes most since but when has a wildcatter ever been accused of having good sense!  I need to see somebody change extractors once so I can get over my fear.  I like the 303 case over the Krag in one respect as it is slightly smaller in the base meaning less pressure on the breechblock.  I might have to play with Quickload to see how to design a wildcat to play with the velocities that might be reached in a 6.5 or 7mm/303 improved with a one caliber neck.  any advice how to do that would be appreciated as I use only about 10% of what Quickload can do I am sure.  Again, thanks for any input.  Tom
  
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #7 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 12:40am
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At the present time, Graf's has plenty of Prvi 303 Savage brass.
  
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #8 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 5:09am
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7 MM from a 30 cal case is easy. Have formed a bunch of 708 and they chamber right from the 7mm f/l die

Go down to 25 with the Krag case the necks get thick and I had to not only outside turn ream the inside too. 

Other difficulty is Krag Brass is not real consistent. Some did fine after the necks were fitted other brands too thick at the web. F.L size die does nothing to the solid brass at the cases base. Had to chuck them up in the lathe and turn the base just a bit to get them to chamber. 

Dropping any of your choices to 7mm ought to be easy

Boats
  
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 10:20am
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boats wrote on Mar 26th, 2015 at 5:09am:
F.L size die does nothing to the solid brass at the cases base. Had to chuck them up in the lathe and turn the base just a bit to get them to chamber.


Boats,  Thank you. Been fighting tight base 38-50's for a while. They work but tight to load and eject. Just never thought about slightly turning the base. Should fix the problem.
Chuck 
  
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boats
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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #10 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 11:34am
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That was the issue with my 30/40 sized to 25 Krag. Commercial brass was fine, brass marked .30 US was too big at the web. It only took a little to make them easy to chamber and extract. Took the thinnest pass with a bit then polished with paper.

Never thought about it before but sizing dies push against empty case, down by the web no place for the brass to go, they don't size

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Re: Any thoughts on a 28-303 Savage Improved Wildcat?
Reply #11 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 12:49pm
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I have seen a number of cartridges based on the .25 Neidner Crag. They have all shot well. Same case to the shoulder and same shoulder angle but necked up or down as needed for Caliber. Shot one a few years ago in 7mm all the rest was pure 
Neidner Crag. It shot super. HTH. Regards, FITZ.
  
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