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mike in Va.
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Maynard 1-new one to me
Mar 8th, 2015 at 10:01pm
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I have a few Maynard's that I shoot.  But this is the first one I have seen with a set trigger--initially I thought it might be a prop for one of the Marx brothers skits!! The standard trigger pull exceeds the max on my gauge.  When I cock the set trigger the trigger pull weight is 3 lbs.

This is  a Model 1.  The gun barrel and action have been over-cleaned, but the butt stock has the original finish and the bore is like new.  It is 36 caliber.  I got some cases from S and S but they do not seat easily.  I have had to soften the brass and force them into the chamber.  I thought about drilling a strap of iron/steel with a drill bit whose diameter is a few thousandth's less than the chamber cast, heat treating the brass, and then forcing the cases to seat.  I can not use the rim to extract the cases.  I have to tap the cases out with a rod of large enough diameter to cover most of the internal base of the cartridge.  I am open to other thoughts?

Hope I attached the picture correctly.

Mike
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #1 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 5:48am
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  Congrats to you Mike.  What a unique find and hope you enjoy shooting it.  I have a list of questions to ask you, when I see you again.  May I ask a couple now that really are at the top of my list.

1) Is the tape primer mechanism operational at this point in its life ?

2) Is the bore rifling in what you would consider shootable condition ?

I will pass along a P.M. with a suggestion for case extraction for your consideration

Those Maynard contacts have paid off for you, haven't they ?

Best regards,

Webb
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #2 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 6:08am
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Mike -- I have answered one of my questions just by re-reading your posted info, .  .  .  .that is, "is the bore in original condition?"  Amazing isn't it, after all those years and your good fortune to find it !

May I mention that the S & S cases are quite thin in the side wall. You probably already know about Rocky Mountain Cartridges, and they make "turned Brass cases from bar stock".  I have some for a couple of Marynard barrels and I find them to be quite durable.  They (RMC) will work from your chamber cast, and return it with the shipment of cases.

My idea for extracting cases was to make up a ring with two ears, one at 3:00 o'clock and the second at 6:00 o'clock into which the case would be inserted just prior to chambering the cartridge.  This extractor ring would then be moved to the next charged case prior to its insertion into the chamber, and so on, repeatedly.

Webb
  
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mike in Va.
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #3 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 10:06am
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Yes the primer mechanism is complete and does work. Except for the fact someone cleaned away the barrel finish the rifle looks unused or used very little!  Has anyone figured a way to make some rolls of caps to try?

When I bought the rifle the rifling looked strong but rough and dark.  Turned out to be dried oil (maybe it was cosmoline Smiley) or even shellac.  But solvents cleaned it out.  The bore looks bright and shinny, and the three groove rifling is sharp--not a single pit or blemish.  Cleaning the bore form the breech end demonstrated that the bore is "choked".  The cleaning patch became harder to push the last inch or two at the muzzle.  Has anyone else noted this on original Maynard's?

I have already test fired the rifle with the two cases I have formed.  But just for function and safety.  Once I come up with a better way to adjust the remaining cases to chamber, I will run some accuracy tests just to see what the potential could have been for the time--of course that is predicated on my shooting accurately.  I will get some of you good shots to try it also.  I have a 250 gr bullet for my 35/40 the I may try.  I assume Romano makes a ring" bullet" bullet (similar to his 50 cal) but I can't find a picture of it on his website.  Anyone have thoughts on a more appropriate bullet? Regarding RMC for cases, the only problem is the wait--about 4 months!
  
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Captain Bob
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #4 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 11:59am
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Mike,

Before you do anything you should consult with John Bly about this Maynard. You need to slug the bore because having that information will govern all future decisions. Also a chamber cast will be important. Since John reproduces first model barrels I would hazard a guess that he has a 36 chamber reamer which should be compatible with the shells available from S&S and Lodgewood. If the bore happens to be slightly undersize you may very well have a variety of .358 and .360 pistol bullets to chose from. Romano did at one time offer a 36 Maynard mould - mine is a recut Lyman set of blocks. Rapine did offer 36 Maynard moulds in two weights, you might get lucky - I fortunately have one of each. By the way, Lodgewood does offer a 36 Maynard loading tool. And there are one or two booths at the Fort who sell shell holders for the  50 Maynard military which will also work with the 36. Your comment about the seeming muzzle constriction is interesting in that I have a later 20 ga barrel which has a muzzle constriction. I have been told that this was referred to as a “jam choke” - maybe something similar was done to your rifle barrel. Investigations continue...
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 12:02pm
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Quote:
Yes the primer mechanism is complete and does work. Except for the fact someone cleaned away the barrel finish the rifle looks unused or used very little!  Has anyone figured a way to make some rolls of caps to try? 


Hi Mike --

Yes, I have chapter and verse to share with you.

Dr. Edward Maynard was issued Letters Patent Number 4,208, dated 22 September 1845, for his tape primer mechanism.  The patent document consist of four pages and contains two parts. Part one being that of the primers, which provides in part, "a new method of making percussion-primers, connected together in a series, by having the fulminate or percussion matter of each primer separated from the other in the series.  .  .  .  ."

In summary, the tape is manufactured with two ply(s) or strips paper.  The first strip in laid out flat and in it are made depressions with a tool which forms a series small cups in the paper strip which are correctly spaced apart to accommodate the distance of the stroke of the locks advancing hand.  Next , the fulminate mixture is dropped into each of the cups and there were fifty such cups per roll.  When dry, the second ply of paper was overlaid and sealed to make the tape waterproof.  And when totally dry it was coiled and packaged for shipment.

Yes, the fulminate mixture is described in detail.  However, rather than recite that here, let me simply give a reference for it, which is Page No.1 at line 105.

Part Two of the patent is the mechanical mechanism with the hinged door and the tape advancing hand which raises upward upon placing the hammer into the full cock position.

The U.S. Patent Office has a web site, but to search patent of this early vintage, one needs to insert a seven digit number, so 4208 becomes searchable as 0004208.  One may also search by date, which in this case is 22 September 1845.

If you wish to wait until this evening, I will send you a message with the four pages as an attachment.

Regards,
Webb
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2015 at 2:47pm by »  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #6 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 5:06pm
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Mike, I've got an original mold and some bullets made from it. PM me your address and I'll send you some. It looks like you got a good one. 

I've got a sizing die that I made up to form 35/30 and 35/40 cases. It would bring your cases to a size that probably would go into your chamber but they would have to be tapped out from the open end as the rims would pull off trying to extract the cases from the sizer.

The weather is breaking and you'll have to come up sometime this spring and do some shooting. We can have a Maynard shooting fest.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #7 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 5:07pm
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Fascinating, that sounds just like the rolls of caps we played with as kids. I think I recalls paying a dime for a box with 5 or 10 50 shot rolls.  do you think our toy cap gun caps would have worked-----if you ever found any?

Then there were the "green stick-um caps" for cartridges that actually propelled a foam rubber "bullet out of the barrel.   Sigh!!!! all probably no longer available due to safety legislation. 

Wasn't there a sharps that also used a tape priming system
  

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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #8 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 7:29pm
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Yes there was a self priming system used on the Sharps rifle.

Actually, Christian Sharps' first patent rifle used the Maynard tape primer system similar to what is shown on Mike's Model One Maynard above.

Later, an employee at Sharps who was their armorer named XXXXX Lawrence (last name) developed a "pellet system" which fed a fulminate pellet each time the hammer was cocked.

Dr. Maynard
  
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mike in Va.
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 8:40pm
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Thanks for all the replies.   

Captain Bob, have you shot your shotgun?  And is it the '65, '73, or '83 variety.  I have a combo set of early the '73 variety.  I had RMC make up ten cases for the shotgun.  I have only test fired mine.  the rifle in the combo is a 20" 40/40.  The shotgun is a 26" 64cal/18 gauge.  If you have used your shotgun to hunt of shoot skeet did you use any thing to improve the tightness of the pattern or just wads and cards like in a muzzle-loader?
  
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Captain Bob
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #10 - Mar 10th, 2015 at 10:05am
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Mike,

I spotted the Maynard shotgun barrel peeking out from under a pile of stuff at the Baltimore show a few years ago as I was headed to the door to leave. It is a true 20 ga as mentioned in later Maynard catalogs and in almost 100% condition complete with extractor and near perfect blue. I guess you could call it an 82 model as it locks up fine on all of my 82 actions as well as a civilian 36 cal bubba modified percussion to center fire I have mentioned here before - Oh, the marvel of the Maynard system!
Frankly I have never tried to put it on a 73 action assuming the base thickness issue - will have to try. Curiously enough the Maynard plier like capping tool which is universal for all thick base Maynard 73 cartridges is also an exact fit for a standard 20 ga base and serves fine for that. I have not yet fired the barrel but intend to and have equipped myself with brass shot shells, shot, wads and period loading tools to do so. With regard to regulating tightness of pattern, if you are familiar with muzzle loading shotguns you will know that to a degree you can  open or close a black powder driven shot column by varying the rations of powder to shot. For wads you can rely on Circle Fly - (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Am I correct in thinking you are a N-SSA shooter and that you attend the Nationals at the Fort? If so let’s try to meet up, perhaps at Yeck’s.

Bob Roberts - 10th Virginia
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard 1-new one to me
Reply #11 - Mar 10th, 2015 at 3:03pm
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  Hi Mike :
            Just wanted to pass along something additional in the event you should not alread have it.

The information that I have quoted below is taken verbatim from More Single Shot Rifles (1959) First Edition, by James J. Grant page 128, chart titled; Dimensions of a Few Maynard Cartridges. 

The reference is to the 1865 percussion cartridge in .35/30.

Rim Diameter -- .770
Under Rim -- .406
Mouth Diameter -- .398
Bullet Diameter -- .370
Case Length Overall -- 1 17/32
Cartridge Length Overall -- 1 31/32

(All dimensions are expressed in inches)

Regards,
Webb
  
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