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chipmaker
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Maynard Action Varient
Mar 2nd, 2015 at 8:28pm
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I recently purchased a Maynard rifle that is different in several ways from my other Maynard and wanted to see if other Maynard collectors have seen these differences.
The first difference is the absence of the usual 1873 and 1882 markings, despite having had these changes carried out. 
In the process of restoring the rifle, I also discovered that the change from percussion to firing pin was made by installing a dove tail piece of metal,  behind the breech instead of the usual practice of milling the top of the action and attaching a piece of metal with three rivets. The photo below shows the insert outlined partially in  black and extending to the rear another 1/4".
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I know that Maynard rifles were modified by independent gunsmiths but I have never heard of any independent supplier for Maynard rifles with the 1873 patent changes.
Has anyone seen Maynard's, with the 1873 and 1882 patent changes that remained unmarked?
Has anyone seen a 1873 type conversion similar to the one above.
Finally can anyone supply a drawing of the 1882 hammer, as that is one of the many broken parts that came with this rifle and needs to be repaired.
Otto  
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #1 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 5:59am
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Chip-Maker --
To begin with the easiest question first, let me ask if this is your first Maynard and lets assume, at least for the moment, that it is an original Mass Arms Co. period correct breech piece ?  The reason for that question is connected to the manner in which Mass Arms Co. "marked" the breech piece at the factory.  The name and patent dates were about a 5 point, block font which was very shallow in depth.  There is only a 1 in 1K chance for an original Maynard to have left the factory with-out the breech piece being name/patent marked on both sides.

It would be fair to say that one of your previous owners was dealing with a serious case of surface rust and or corrosion and went about removing it in an aggressive manner, maybe even used a mechanical means such as a belt sander.  He (previous owner) would have come to the point and time to decide whether to remove the corrosion completely and lose the markings; or conversely, save the markings and live with some of the corrosion.

He (previous owner) obviously went wholeheartedly after the corrosion at the expense of the marking.

On the question of what was typical for Mass Arms to do with the percussion standing breech, there may have been more than one design changes over time.  In other words, as the re-purchased used/surplus percussion breech pieces began to arrive back at Mass Arms there must have been a "trial and error" period during which the designers explored all their possible options and alternatives for installing firing pins.

Not all of the war surplus auctioned Maynards went to Mass Arms Co.  Some smaller arms dealers were successful bidders and took theses used percussion style breach pieces into their work shops to emulate what Mass Arms was doing.  (I have a list of 2 or 3 at home and will pass than info along.)  The smaller machine shops may have had different ideas to about converting to C.F., but I doubt anyone will ever sort out which re-worker used which methodology for converting
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #2 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 6:17am
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  Chip-Maker -- 
I ran into the problem of exceeding my allotted 2 K characters above.

  But wanted to ask you if you would be interested in posting additional photos of your Maynard breech piece?

The black marker would not be necessary if you could provide close-up zoom photo of the conversion work on your standing breech.  I don't want to pre-judge or jump to conclusions prematurely, but as it stands, with just one photo of one side, the conversion looks very similar to what Mass Arms performed on their used percussion breech pieces in the conversion to center fire.

Best wishes and much success.  Will you be coming to the Maryland Arms Collectors show in two weeks time near Baltimore?  If so, you may be able to locate some of the replacement Maynard parts necessary to advance and /or complete your project.

Welcome to the world of Maynard firearms.  You've chosen well.

Dr.Maynard
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #3 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 12:11pm
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DM
This is Maynard #3 for me, as they just seem to keep multiplying. My other two are 1873 models and the 1873 stamp is actually bolder than the patent markings on the left or Mass Arms markings on the right side. The patent and Mass Arms markings are undisturbed on this action (#10877) and there is no evidence of past refinishing.
Getting photos of the dove tailed breech piece was difficult. The black mark was needed to convince the camera to properly expose the photo, so that the dove tail line could be seen on the right.
Have you ever seen a converted Maynard handled in this way? My other Maynard's both have the breech addition held by three screw/rivets.
Do you have any information on any of the smaller arms dealers who might have been doing Maynard conversions of the percussion rifles? 
Otto  
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #4 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 1:12pm
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Otto, I've never seen a conversion like that one before. I've seen some interesting conversions that I would consider factory prototypes but not one done as yours is.

Here are some pictures of an 1873 and an 1882 hammer. The second picture has the 1882 superimposed on top of the 1873 hammer. You should be able to discern the differences between them.

  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #5 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 1:14pm
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Here's what was supposed to be the 1st picture.
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #6 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 1:21pm
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   Chip-Maker --

  I am away today for meetings and won't be back until late Thursday.  Friday will be my first opportunity to get my Maynard/Mass Arms files out and get some additional information to you.

  Since this is your third Maynard it sound to me that you have truly found them interesting.  I am also a student of Edward Maynard the dentist and inventor of other mechanical devices, as well as him being an intellect.

As for your recent acquisition, if you believe it was never marked/roll stamped at any time in the past, I would pursue the thought that it may have been part of Mass Arms production run that went South to fill a C.S.A. procurement contract.  The absence of the Maynard name and patent date just possible could have been a business decision that Mass Arms Co insisted upon before entering into a contract with the C.S.A.  Actually, those sale contracts were executed between individual states in the C.S.A. and Mass Arms Co.

I'll get back with you at the end of this week.

Dr.Maynard
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #7 - Mar 3rd, 2015 at 8:20pm
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Webb, the only markings missing on Otto's Maynard are the numbers "1873" and "1882". It is otherwise marked normally. I've seen guns with one or the other missing but I don't think I've seen one with both missing. Perhaps with the odd conversion it should not be considered as either.
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #8 - Mar 4th, 2015 at 12:51am
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DM and DB
Thank you for your responses to my question. Although the action is missing the 1873 & 1882 markings, it does have the action changes associated with these markings. Specifically, the 1882 style barrel and hammer and the 1873 hammer cocking lever and extractor. 
I would be very interested in the names of any companies making the preceding changes to percussion rifles other than Mass Arms. 
Thanks DB for the pictures of the two hammers. The spur was broken off the hammer at the site of a previously brazed repair. The rest of the hammer is intact and I plan to repair it by welding on a new spur.
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 8:12pm
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The comment by DB, that this odd conversion shouldn't be considered either a 1873 or 1882 conversion, together with the link by DM to a type 2 Civil war era Maynard serial # 10900 caused me to a closer look at this Maynard serial # 10877.
The dovetailed insert conversion from percussion to cartridge apparently wasn't a Mass. Arms variation. 
Placing the firing pin retaining screw above the firing pin was also not standard practice and most likely lead to the damage shown in the pictures below. 
The hammer conversion was carried out by brazing a new spur into a notch but it had broken off sometime in the pass. See photos below and the hammer repair to a 1882 style hammer.
A crescent butt plate was inletted into a shortened stock. See the photos of the stock alongside an original unaltered stock and a shortened stock fitted with a standard butt plate.
The hammer cocking lever is similar to but of a different style than shown in Dr. Maynard's patent drawing of 1873 and is inserted into a hole instead of the drilled and broached hole as done by Mass. Arms.
The barrel currently attached is a 32", 40 caliber barrel in a 1882 sporting style. The corrosion prevented a chamber cast but the area between the lugs had a marking #28.
The following is what I think the preceding differences represent.
A Civil War era type 2 action, converted to a 1882 type sporting rifle by someone other than Mass. Arms. 
The action changes patented by Dr. Maynard in 1873 are present but done slightly different than done by Mass. Arms.
Does anyone know of any non Mass. Arms percussion to cartridge conversions? 
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #10 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 8:16pm
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Additional Pictures showing the rifles markings
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #11 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 8:25pm
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Additional pictures showing hammer damage, sights,hammer cocking lever, and the stock with brass butt plate.
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #12 - Mar 19th, 2015 at 6:42pm
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  The additional photos are quite enlightening.  Do you know if the barrel head space to the standing breech is in accordance with the 1873 case or rather the 1882 style case?

Also, when you took delivery of your rifle, did it have a firing pin in place and operation with a coil spring to retract it?

If so, was the firing pin identical to that used by Mass Arms Co. in their conversions or was it at variance is some respects?
 
Dr.Maynard
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #13 - Mar 20th, 2015 at 1:57pm
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DM
My mystery Maynard conversion was set up with a Maynard, 1882 style, barrel. The 32" barrel was 40 caliber, with sporting sights but the bore and chamber were too corroded to obtain a chamber cast. I suspect that it may have originally been chambered for the 40-70 Maynard.
The firing pin and spring were missing. They were retained by a cross screw, similar to  Mass. Arms conversions but the cross screw was located across the top of the firing pin, instead of the bottom. This contributed to the damage, to the rear of the firing pin area, as shown above. 
When I rebuilt the damaged area, I located the retaining screw below the firing pin. The firing pin recess was drilled similar to that done by Mass. Arms, so the new firing pin and spring follow the Mass. Arms style.
Otto
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Maynard Action Varient
Reply #14 - May 18th, 2015 at 4:28pm
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I thought that the some would enjoy seeing the Maynard now that it is back to functioning order.
The barrel that came with the rifle will be relined and used on another Maynard. The barrel shown below is a 32-20 barrel mated to a mono block similar to the Mass Arms practice with its smaller caliber conversions.
Additional repairs included the hammer, firing pin, FP retaining screw, cartridge conversion piece, trigger spring, and all of the screws.
The 32-20 cartridge is shown on the left alongside a 38-55 Win converted to Maynard 1873 style and a 40-60 Maynard fired in an original Maynard chamber. Initial testing with both TrailBoss and Bullseye powders showed similar accuracy and the 32-20 was very pleasant to shoot. I think that this rifle will be a good shooter with a proper load. 
Otto
  
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