Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Comparing BP to smokeless (Read 23054 times)
Seanmp
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: Land O Lakes
Joined: May 19th, 2014
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #30 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 6:27pm
Print Post  
texasmac wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 11:48am:
UtahDave wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:06am:
Wayne,
I know you have huge experience but are you concerned that a heavy Walters under primer wad could stay in the barrel?  
Dave


Dave,

Excellent comment.  I had considered that aspect of the test.  I doubt a very lightweight paper wad, even .030" or .060" thick, would be a major bore obstruction if it remained, but it certainly is a concern and I will be checking the bore after each shot.  

BTW, I plan on attempting to find one or more of the Walter wads after firing, if possible, to inspect it.  But that may be impossible due to the grass in front of the shooting stations.  If I had thought more about this in advance I would have spray painted the wads a bright color but it's too late now as the loads are ready to go.

Wayne


I often find the remains of the parchment paper OPW's still in the casing
  

Sean
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2578
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #31 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 6:33pm
Print Post  
If I were to bet on it, I'd expect that most of your over primer wads will still be in the case.

Mine generally are, but then I've never tried a 0.060" wad over the primer either.   

Wads can do funny things.  A number of times I've had LDPE wads ( over the BP charge ) land at my feet shortly after the rifle goes off.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
texasmac
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2150
Location: Central Texas
Joined: Aug 16th, 2004
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #32 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 7:39pm
Print Post  
Mick B wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 6:16pm:
Hi Wayne.
Firstly thanks for the tip on getting separated case parts out of my barrel, I will certainly try it if I'm unlucky enough to have the problem arise again.
On the subject of recovering your under powder wads you may be able to erect a barrier of fly screen about 20 ft in front of your firing point and shoot through it. By the time the bullet goes through the fly wire the wad may be on a different path and caught in the screen. The only cost would be a square meter of screen and a couple of sticks to holt it upright in place.
Regards.
Mike.



Mike,

That's a good idea.  Even something like a couple of large sections of cardboard should stop the wad.  Thanks.

Wayne
  

NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
UtahDave
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 395
Location: Heber City, Utah
Joined: Aug 14th, 2010
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #33 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 8:51pm
Print Post  
So how about a small pin hole in the under powder wad to make sure it sends the gases from the primer into the center of the powder.  A sort of weak point?   

What might be interesting is a perforated tube through the center of the powder...ignite all of the BP at once, like a recoilless rifle shell.  Ok...too complicated.   

I'm going to try duplex the spring.

Dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mick B
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1007
Location: 19 Ian Nicol St watson ACT aus
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #34 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 6:01pm
Print Post  
FWIW Tube idea, and variations of it, were tried in the days of black powder, how well it worked I have no idea, but was dropped with the advent of smokeless powder which was loose in the case.
On the subject of thick over primer wads I'm pretty sure they would remain in the case after firing and may be a bit of a PITA to dig out afterwards.
I have tried paper over primer wads and some residue from the partially combusted paper was noticed when cleaning the cases later. Using the paper over the flash hole in the case made no difference to accuracy that I could measure when using black powder. I have no experience with smokeless of course owing to my high personal standards.
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2578
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #35 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 7:03pm
Print Post  
Dave, Buffalo Arms sells a compression die that looks like it does what you are talking about.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1185
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #36 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 7:21pm
Print Post  
"Powder Compression System"   --  The late Dick Trenk once described a device like this that he used when loading BP in 375 H&H.   He called it "the poor man's 38-90".    Dick says that it was really necessary to make the long powder column work.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #37 - Mar 7th, 2015 at 1:52am
Print Post  
gunlaker wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 7:03pm:
Dave, Buffalo Arms sells a compression die that looks like it does what you are talking about.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Chris.


Those threads on a press are the same as a 3/4 pipe thread.  You would be surprised how easy compression dies were made before they were invented  Wink  Of course, the lathe/machinists guys on here could whip one out in a few minutes  Cheesy
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2578
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #38 - Mar 7th, 2015 at 10:50am
Print Post  
This one apparently leaves a hollow column through the center of the powder though.  I don't plan on buying one, but I'm sure that one day someone will post about how well it works.

Chris.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seanmp
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: Land O Lakes
Joined: May 19th, 2014
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #39 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 4:07pm
Print Post  
Hey I like that idea of spring loading the pin. But that pin looks pretty big in diameter.

I've been playing with something similar in some experiments with 303Br. My pin is small enough to slide through the flash hole and it has a tiny amount of taper so it releases immediately on the backstroke. 

However.... even though I've bolted a 1/4" steel explosion shield to the front of my bench I'm still really uneasy about priming after charging. I think its time to rig up a die  for that spring mech.
I dont have any definitive results from my efforts yet. 3' of snow keeps me off the range.
  

Sean
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 12275
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #40 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 4:58pm
Print Post  
I've seated a bazillion primers. Never had one go off. Ooops, shouldn't have said that.   Cry


             Joe.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
45BPCR
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 14
Joined: Sep 12th, 2013
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #41 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 5:53pm
Print Post  
Two stroke engines smell and sound GREAT! I have a 3-1 expansion chamber on my 1972 Kawasaki H-2. It'll break windows.

Early last spring I had to answer the primer question for myself so I used two known good loads and two rifles.
My 45-90 and 40-65 Brownings. The 45-90 was loaded with 82 grns. of Swiss 3f and a Baco Postell. The 40-65 was 71 grains of Swiss 1 1/2f and a Baco M4 Money bullet.
4 different primers were used with and without a yellow legal paper wad between the primer and case. Targets were shot at 3 and 500 yards for a total of 8 at each range.

In order of group size, large to small, the primers were Fed 215M, Rem 9 1/2LR, CCI BR-2 and Rem 2 1/2. When using a wad, I slotted a shell holder and fed the paper through like a long paper punch on a single stage press.

I was pretty amazed at the difference in group sizes that using a thin piece of paper between the primer and the case caused. In all cases, the smallest groups were with the Rem 2 1/2 primer with a paper wad, which kinda surprised me as I figured the heavy compressed charge of 3f in my 45-90 would need a stronger spark to get it going.

IF the snow ever melts up here in the Piney woods and my range shows it's self again, I want to experiment with thicker paper inside the case, just to see.

Craig
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seanmp
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: Land O Lakes
Joined: May 19th, 2014
Re: Comparing BP to smokeless
Reply #42 - Mar 9th, 2015 at 12:18am
Print Post  
westerner wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
I've seated a bazillion primers. Never had one go off. Ooops, shouldn't have said that.   Cry


             Joe.

Yup...thats what im thinking everytime I pull that lever down. Of course with the explosion plate I'm sure it would be nothing worse than a change of undies...but still.
  

Sean
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 
Send TopicPrint