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.22-5-40
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600yd. .40-70?
Feb 13th, 2015 at 6:32pm
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The post on 1000yd. shooting with the .45-70 got me wondering.  The std. .40-70 (or .40-63 Ballard everlasting) bullet weight was a 330gr. P.P.  The Original Ballards had I believe a 1-20" twist.  The Ballard 4  1/2 A-1  Mid-Range  was chambered in this round, as well as the various Sharps Mid-Range rifles.  How did this relatively light bullet...in todays standards preform at 600yds?
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #1 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 7:46pm
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   Modern practice, of course, is to use bullets of ca 400-420 gr at MR.  The old ctgs seemed to be generally loaded with 330 gr, more-or-less.  One supposes that they must have been satisfactory.
    I had pretty good luck at the BP Nationals a couple years ago, using a TD 45-70 in the military rifle class, loaded with 400 gr bullet and 47 (sic) gr of powder, velocity ca 1100 fps.   The object was low recoil.  I had made up loads with good velocity SD, and shot pretty good scores with it, beating Dennis B (Mr Trapdoor, hisself) in the position aggregate.
    So I don't think MR absolutely REQUIRES heavy bullets and high velocity, tho it is probably the best place to start.

CHRIS
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frnkeore
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #2 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 7:50pm
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I can't say but, like in todays world, the mid or long range shooter could use different bullets. The 20 twist .410 groove rifles can stabilize a 1.400 long bullet, especially at 600 yd.

A 1.4 long bullet can run at least as high as 400 gr with PP bullets. The 40/63 was limited to PP bullets because of the chambers neck dia. unless you turn the neck and I don't think many could do that, at the time. 

So, I guess it will be a mystery, unless we can find some writings of those calibers in competition.

Frank
  

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George Babits
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #3 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 9:17pm
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My first 40 caliber rifle was barreled by Dick Hoch for the 40 Krag  (basically the 40-60 Maynard).  That rifle was built on a Ruger #3 and the work included a 330 grain bullet mould.  Shot pretty well but I traded the rifle off and kept the mould.  Later I had Ron Snover rebore a nice Remington rolling block to 40-70 Sharps straight for me.  Unfortunately we got our signals crossed and he used a 1:16 twist.  I had asked for a 1:18 twist because I wanted to use that 330 grain bullet.  That bullet gave me a really good SD on the chronograph but the target looked like a shotgun pattern at 50 yards.  I went to a 410 grain bullet and things got really good.  Several years ago I was shooting it at 1000 yards and didn't have any trouble keeping everything on the 40" gong we were shooting at.

At the same time I was also shooting a rebarreled original 1874 Sharps using a 420 grain flat point bullet (Lyman 457197) and once I got the sights set I was clanging the gong everytime.  That's my elk rifle and load, but it sure was doing a fine job at 1000 yards!  That 40" gong equates to a 4" group at 100 yards.  Probably wouldn't win any paper matches.

George
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shovel80
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #4 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 10:25pm
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My Wife shoots a .40-70 SS with a Saeco 740 at about 408 GR. with 20-1....She takes down the 500 Meter Rams Fairly easily.

Terry
  

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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #5 - Feb 14th, 2015 at 8:17am
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George Babits wrote on Feb 13th, 2015 at 9:17pm:
Later I had Ron Snover rebore a nice Remington rolling block to 40-70 Sharps straight for me.  Unfortunately we got our signals crossed and he used a 1:16 twist.  I had asked for a 1:18 twist because I wanted to use that 330 grain bullet.  That bullet gave me a really good SD on the chronograph but the target looked like a shotgun pattern at 50 yards.  I went to a 410 grain bullet and things got really good.  
George
Salmon, Idaho

Not sure why a 16" twist would be a problem with a 330gr bullet. I shoot a 370gr Saeco #640 bullet in a 14.5" twist 40cal barrel and it has no problem holding the 10-ring at 200yd (though I've ordered a 370gr Spitzer mold to see if I can tighten that up a bit). Testing this year (once it warms up) will be to compare the 400gr, 412gr and 425gr Money bullets at 600yd. 
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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George Babits
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2015 at 9:48am
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I don't know either, but the targets sure told the story!

George
  
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Re: 600yd. .40-70?
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2015 at 4:02pm
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Our club matches Buffalo set behind the 500 M ram line has been won most often with 38/55's its a bit less than 550 yards, all offhand.   Disadvantage of The 38 on falling Rams is striking power. Paper or swinging steel targets all you have to do is hit it and the 38's light recoil makes it easier than larger calibers.

Do see some disadvantage to light 38 bullets 300 and over seem to work best.

If you need striking power 40 is the way to go. 600 and under I see little need for big cartridges if the bullet has good BC



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