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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1,000 yd 45/70 (Read 12222 times)
Old-Win
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #15 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 12:34pm
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Hank,
If you already have .45-70, by all means, use it.  If you're going to buy or build a rifle, specifically for LR shooting then go with more powder capacity.  As several have said, you can get more powder in a 45-70 by using bullets with  a reduced driving band or two.  Also, if your rifle has a 1-1/2 to 3 degree lead, that allows you to seat the bullet out a little further.  Here is a bullet (Baco 459530M3) I use in my 45-70 and it allows me to get 75 grs of 1-1/2 Swiss into my case with about .070" of compression.  I'm not saying that that is the bullet you should use, just that it works for me.  My shooting partner uses a .45-70 and pp's.  He is getting IIRC, 84-86 grs of powder in the case.  It took him a while to get pp to work, but now he has been one of the top shooters at Lodi the last few years.  Bob
« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2015 at 12:48pm by Old-Win »  
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Old-Win
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 1:15pm
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Here is my take FWIW, on the minimum velocity deal.  When some ranges started putting in minimum velocity/weight requirements, it was for a different reason than angle of descent.  It was so the bullet had enough energy to penetrate the 2X4 uprights.   When BPTR 1st got started, somebody was shooting a pipsqueak load and hit the upright. Instead of going through, the bullet ricocheted  down and hit the target puller in his foot. A lot of shooters missed this part of the reason for the rule and thought it was just because of the rapid drop of the bullet. This was banged around on the internet forums for a long time.
Now on the other hand, my 1st LR matches were at Harris, MN and those butts were definitely not safe for BPTR and now a new back wall has been built.
No doubt, safety of all kinds is needed to keep this sport going and any type of accident would be a terrible blow.  NRA scoring methods have slowly evolved to where the scorers hand does not go above the mid-point of the target when it's been pulled down.  Bob
  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #17 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 2:50pm
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i have a brooks turkey killer mould with three reduced bands , it shoots well to 1000k with 80 gr. swiss 1 1/2and .080 comp  in my 45/70the same rifle with the paul jones creedmour bullet and 70gr. 1 1/2 shoots 1210   1220 fps so i gues the 80gr load is about 1260  1270.   art
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #18 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 3:41pm
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SSShooter wrote on Feb 13th, 2015 at 3:37pm:
[quote author=5346424953485255444F52444F210 link=1423820418/9#9 date=1423838160]    A fly in all this ointment is that many ranges have specifications for minimum performance for LR cartridges, because they worry about bullets coming into the targets at too steep an angle.   Make sure that your bullet weight and velocity come up to the performance specifications required at the event you contemplate entering.
CHRIS
RGChristensen

Quantico has no guidelines, nor does the NRA. However, Reade Range does.

Hank45 wrote on Feb 13th, 2015 at 11:08am:
Is breech seating allowed in 1,000 yd  shooting and is there a time restriction? Thanks for your answer, Hank45

Normally 30min for sighters & 10-shots for record. Sighters are often unlimited at 1000yd (matches are 800/900/1000yd), but still only 30min. May vary a bit from range to range. If you can breech-seat and get off your shots in 30min, power to you.

Here are the NRA BPTR rules (mid & long-range) for those who might be interested.
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« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2015 at 8:20am by SSShooter »  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #19 - Feb 13th, 2015 at 4:51pm
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If I recall correctly Chris Christensen used a 45/70 breech seated, with a paper tube allowing more BP than the case would hold when first shooting LR Cartridge.

Then re-chambered the gun for 45/90, once he worked out the  bullet sights etc..

Boats

  
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #20 - Feb 14th, 2015 at 4:40pm
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I have not been on this site for some time, just a lot going on in my life.

I have shot my bone stock Browning 45-70 as far as the 1540 yard Billy Dixon target with good results.

I shoot a 535 gr. 16:1 BACO paper patched money bullet with 80 grs. Swiss 1.5, seated about .10", MV about 1370 fps.

BTW, we found a bullet in the sand from one of my misses, and it was hardly deformed, but nicely engraved.

I'm not a die hard minimalist, but I am confident in my Browning and not looking for something better.  It just plain works for me.

My theory going into this was that the lack of a leade in the Browning chamber would work well with a paper patched bore rider, and it looks like I was right.

Paul

  
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Hank45
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #21 - Feb 15th, 2015 at 7:23am
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Thank you all for the excellent information. I have another question, What is a money bullet and what is the differance in design than a regular  one? Thanks for your answer, Hank45
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #22 - Feb 15th, 2015 at 8:00am
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'Money' bullets are characterized by their long, secant (IIRC) curve nose design, with is much more like modern high power target/long-range ammo then the traditional Postel or Creedmoor nose designs of yore. Their primary advantage is their considerably higher BC, so they cheat the wind better, especially at longer distances. Buffalo Arms has any number listed in 38, 40 & 45cal (and others) as does Brooks, Sagebrush. Dan Theodore, a serious student of BP ballistics who primarily hangs out on the Shiloh Sharps forum, has designed many of these bullets that have proved quite successful in various competitions over the past 10+ years.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #23 - Feb 15th, 2015 at 9:36am
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Hank,
From L to R.  Early Original Ideal Postell, Paul Jones Sharps PP Nose, Baco Money Bullet, Paul Jones Money Bullet.  I have yet to get the Paul Jones Money bullets to shoot real well in my rifles.  I don't know why!!  Cry  Any of those nose shapes should do well in a 45-70 especially if you have a mold with the 1st couple of driving bands reduced so that it goes up your barrel farther allowing more powder capacity.
  
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #24 - Feb 15th, 2015 at 11:17am
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Technically the Money bullet is a spherically blunted tangent ogive nose.  You can see it here.

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Dan's original spec for that bullet considered more than just the nose itself, but the length, nose to shank ratio, lube groove depth and width, and probably some more factors.   

The Buffalo Arms version I use in my .45-70 does seem to shoot well, but it's a little different than Dan's original design.  Although he has different versions of different chamber designs.

Chris.


  
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SSShooter
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Re: 1,000 yd 45/70
Reply #25 - Feb 15th, 2015 at 11:31am
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Old-Win wrote on Feb 15th, 2015 at 9:36am:
I have yet to get the Paul Jones Money bullets to shoot real well in my rifles.  I don't know why!!  Cry 

Interesting, as I have had the same result with my PJ Money bullet (370gr) while the BACo Money bullet (365gr) shoots accurately at 600yd. 
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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