Schuetzenmiester wrote on Feb 9^th, 2015 at 1:17am:

From which range did the shot originate?

Here you go, Bob. I copied it out of the Email you sent out.

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Frank

Range safety is a huge concern for every gun range in America. Anti gun nuts and unscrupulous developers lick their chops at the prospect of closing down gun ranges. Quit a few of the problems that ranges face is land developers who place houses in inappropriate locations when they have bought farmland next or near ranges. These developers think nothing of putting their customers at risk and once they have the money its up to the dim bulbs who buy the property to sort out the mess.
  In general I have little empathy for those who buy houses next to a gun range and then complain about noise. I put them in the same category as people who buy at the end of the runway and then complain about jet noise. Having said all that we shooters need to step up and make sure that all shooters at the range act responsibly. Many ranges have regulations against automatic fire if so make sure that they are enforced. If your range doesn’t have a rule about from the hip fire, propose one at your next meeting. If you see dangerous behavior do something about it. Most of you have a phone with a camera use it to document dangerous behavior and record license plates. Take the evidence to your next meeting.
Oh and one more thing just because it shucks out of the side of your gun or you got that whole can of cheap crap Chinese steel cased ammo doesn’t mean that you don’t have to pick it up. 

40 Rod

I think most shots going off any range is due to a shooter NOT knowing where his muzzle is pointing, such as when sighting in, or doing dumb crap, like setting junk on top of posts of target frames.

I'd bet most stray bullets are jacketed also.  Cast might deform more and not travel very far due to deforming badly.

Just to many DA's allowed to have guns..............

Quote:


When the lady was interviewed they showed a handful of slugs found on her property. From the picture they showed, most of those slugs appeared to be cast bullets, as I could see lube grooves on a lot of them. 
I'm unsure if Clark Rifles was there first, or if the homes were there first? I personally feel that responsible gun safety would eliminate stray bullets there, but also feel if people build around the downrange portion of a gun club, they need to accept some responsibility for where they chose to build. You can't put yourself into harm's way, and not expect to get harmed someday.
Portland Gun Club has had some issues also, and they only shoot shotguns at their range! Houses and homeowners have come forward with complaints to the local police about "bullet holes" in their homes, or even had bullets to show police. Obviously there's some collusion going on, and those involved don't know the club is strictly shotguns. Fortunately the police do, and have shut down these fake complaints quickly.
When PGC was built there were no homes anywhere near it. Later the county allowed developers to build huge housing tracts around it, and people moved in and attempted to close the club down. That sort of thing is ridiculous, and people who buy a house by a gun club surely know the noise or shooting wont stop, just because they built a house nearby.

I just happened to think C..... Rifles might turn this up on Goggle search, i modified my previous post. 

Their web page shows their solution (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

At the time the of the complaints at Cascade by other shooters,  there were reports of projectiles in the houses off to the right too.  I was very skeptical at the time, but after having done quite a bit of researching available reports on line and studying the forensic R data, I have come to believe it to be possible.  This issue can be  easily solved but in my experience shooters do not believe this happens.  My own club wanted to throw me out for raising the issues.  This will be very difficult to  correct.  

In many of the reports on line, if there is sufficient info to id the locations, the problems can be seen from outer space!   Well, on Goggle maps if there is good lighting and resolution of the close up photo.

Here is a classic example of the issues.  See the grooves the projectiles are leaving 
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And open field target placement
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Also notice the back stops.  
They have excessive evidence of face climbing where the projectile travels up the face and out over the top of the berm.

Seeing evidence of this locally, I took the R*S--0 course to see what they were telling our people about control of the projectile after it leaves the muzzle and the operator's responsibility to see the shot come to a safe conclusion.  Nothing!! 

I have contacted the N... safety  and N**F several times with my concerns.  They chose to ignore it. 

There was a woman in IL shot in the cheek and out through her chin! from a new facility in operation less than a year. A pregnant woman hit sitting at an outdoor dinging table. A man hit in the head in CT.   Hits in houses, cars and horses.  It is getting to be epidemic! 

I believe the primary cause is changing demographics.  30 years  ago nearly all shooting was at longer ranges for precision shot placement in the target.  Today we see the trend towards tactical, short range (open field target too far from a back stop) , high volume fire  in an attempt to put up an impenetrable wall of lead in front of one's self. 

There is a case in TX where the owner built a new facility.  In less that a year he had many complaints and was closed. (Never use the word "sh.t.down",  that is a common Google search word that turns up lots of examples, "closed" will turn up a lot of operating  hours  )  The investigator even heard projectiles passing overhead during his investigation.  From the pictures I saw the problems are quite obvious.  Open field targets and back stop that will never hold a shot.  

His claim is he has exceeded standards with his earthwork higher than required.  He is taking this to court and expecting to win on that basis I believe.  MY biggest concern is using the national standards as a defense will eventually show they are woefully inadequate.

This leads to my next concern, the well financed anti crown that recently pushed and passed an initiative issue here is WA  and are headed for other states. If they use these incidents and the inadequate standards to push their own standards, those standards could be prohibitively expensive and /or impossible to meet. That could easily eliminate most ranges within 3 miles of a residence or other occupied area including agricultural occupation by cattle or horses or even an occasional worker. 

The question is how to get the word out to the offending facilities and get them to properly place targets and  eliminate flat surface hits keeping all projectiles in proper back stops immediately behind the target?  This publicly could be used for closings faster than the operators comply and are able to make improvements. 

Anyway, I am very apprehensive going public.  What to do???