ASSRA Forum - Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard

ASSRA Forum › General › Rifle Photos › Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard

(Moderator Group: Moderator)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1]

Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies)

Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard (Read 14281 times)

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Dec 21^st, 2014 at 1:57pm	Print Post
	This one was done by Slotterbeck. I believe this action started life as a straight non-pistol grip action. It was re-machined and shaped and then a loop lever was added. In addition the lever appears to orginal been from a single trigger rifle. Fun to speculate (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


	IP Logged

frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7245 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #1 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 2:23pm	Print Post
	Very well done, I like it! The guy that had it done must have liked Winchesters, a lot. Was there a scope makers name listed? Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
	YIM AIM IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #2 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 2:33pm	Print Post
	28-1/2″ Malcolm scope in target mounts 22 cal Note the rear tang sight mount but no provisions for front sight. Since it not a breech seat rifle you wonder what the rear mount was for? Seller at the time of auction believed that this was the makers personnel rifle.


	IP Logged

32 ballard xl Full Member Offline Stand on your hind legs, and shoot like a man. Posts: 129 Location: Akwesasne, New York Joined: Feb 20^th, 2011	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #3 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 6:41pm	Print Post
	LRF wrote on Dec 21^st, 2014 at 2:33pm: 28-1/2″ Malcolm scope in target mounts 22 cal Note the rear tang sight mount but no provisions for front sight. Since it not a breech seat rifle you wonder what the rear mount was for? Seller at the time of auction believed that this was the makers personnel rifle. Amazing what you can learn on here. I never knew that J.M. Marlin owned one of these.

	Ballards are best!
	IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #4 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 7:30pm	Print Post
	LRF wrote on Dec 21^st, 2014 at 1:57pm: This one was done by Slotterbeck. I believe this action started life as a straight non-pistol grip action. It was re-machined and shaped and then a loop lever was added. In addition the lever appears to orginal been from a single trigger rifle. Fun to speculate I might be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure the loop levers for single or DST Ballards are the same. I'd need to pull to pull a couple to confirm, but I think the difference is in the breechblock, which situates the DST sets forward to use the same lever. The DST triggers on that gun appear to be the very thin third style used, and they sit back closer to the rear with the shape Marlin made them.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #5 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 7:38pm	Print Post
	One other thing I noticed. The action is the faceted style with the corners beveled on the receiver octagon top. Similar to what Marlin did with Rigby, and 7 A-1 models. Many factory engraved guns did not get this same bevel on the octagons, and unless an engraved Pacific got this treatment during the rework, it normally would have not had it, even if factory engraved. Rigbys came both straight or pistol grip stocks, but either way were built on pistol grip frames. 7 A-1's were only pistol grip.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #6 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 9:34pm	Print Post
	I do not know fore sure whether a single trigger loop lever is different, looking at pictures the back edge of the breechblock exits the frame at the same spot no matter which action. This is a good reference point. Now compare the point were the lever re touches the action body. You will notice it is not the same for all loop type levers and the place is often tied to the whether single or set triggers were on the gun. As to the comment about the facets, those would be the easiest feature to add to any rifle. Looking at the engraving, that is not any engraving pattern I have seen from the factory. Not least that I remember, if it is then I would stand corrected. My interest in this and other guns I have posted picture of is in how various makers have modified the straight actions to make them pistol grip in appearance. If any one else has any different picture of rifles I would like the see them. I have a #5 action that I am building and I am looking at various ways to modify it for a look I want. One of the interesting finds I just got and will use on this rifle is a very good condition set of original ballard mid range tang sight and a windgage spirit level front again original ballard. They are really cool and nice. I am excited to have gotten them.


	IP Logged

kensmachine Oldtimer Offline Posts: 562 Joined: Nov 21^st, 2012	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #7 - Dec 21^st, 2014 at 11:36pm	Print Post
	the barrel part of the action looks short Ken


	IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #8 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 7:14am	Print Post
	Ken, Great catch, yes indeed it is shorter by aprox .3". You can see the lettering engraving is cut off. In addition, I have a method for loading pictures into my CAD system, determine the photo scale to actual and can then compare features to what they are on a real action. Actual Ballard receiver barrel ring is about ~1.44" while the one on this gun measures ~1.15"
	« Last Edit: Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 7:24am by LRF »

	IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #9 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:29am	Print Post
	Going to have to disagree with your observation as to where the lever touches the action on loop lever, pistol grip frame Ballard actions. I just went down to my safe a dug out all my loop lever Ballards in both single and DST styles. After measuring all the levers, I found no discernible difference in levers. I removed two loop levers and overlaid them, and they are a match to each other. The actions are all the same, and breechblock openings are all the same. The only difference is where the triggers are placed within the beechblocks. The single triggers are centered more in the breechblocks, while DST breechblocks have the front trigger placed a bit forward, and rear trigger placed a bit back. Sort of split the difference between where the single trigger is.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #10 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:31am	Print Post
	kensmachine wrote on Dec 21^st, 2014 at 11:36pm: the barrel part of the action looks short Ken Good eye Ken! Looks like this frame has been so customized that it would be tough to tell what it once was.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

bohemianway Oldtimer Offline Posts: 644 Location: Andover, MN Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #11 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 12:12pm	Print Post
	Am I correct in it being a cast three line action? And, the rear base looks to be a modified tang sight base to fit the shortened action (note wear ring from sight screw). And, the "engraving" looks more like punched than engraved. And I am skeptical of the Slotterbeck connection (there my be a part with the name on it but has anyone seen this 20th century relief chiseling on a Slotterbeck era piece?). JSTP Charles


	GTalk IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #12 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:39pm	Print Post
	Its a 3 line action correct, whats also interesting is that it has a firing pin screw which was not the norm. Also it doesn't look to have the concave surface on the top flat, although the pictures don't really show it that well. The connection to Slotterbeck was how it was listed on the Julia Auction. Probably marked someplace but the current owner would have to provide that info. I agree the engraving does have a punched look to it and frankly not that nicely done.


	IP Logged

frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7245 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #13 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:58pm	Print Post
	Food for thought.......... do you think that a guy that had the money to have the stock and forearm craved like that, would send it to a second rate engraver? Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
	YIM AIM IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #14 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 4:27pm	Print Post
	Interesting thought but the carving is way better than the engraving. It's possible that the various work was done over time and by multiple owners. I think this is what makes this all fun and interesting.


	IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #15 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:09pm	Print Post
	I'm not sure the sight was modified, but the frame looks shortened on both ends. It's possible the sight was altered, or just hangs over the shortened frame a bit. The engraving does look to be lesser quality than the stocks, but I can't tell if it's done with a pointed punch, or not. Most of the Marlin Ballards and Marlin lever action rifles had some punched or stamped engraving on the borders, but not this style. In general, the borders were stamped by apprentices at sometime before or after the master did the main panels. Border work being punched was repetitive, and above most masters. I was talking with a close friend Sunday who is the secretary for the Engravers Guild, and he told me on occasion an advanced apprentice did the entire gun, and the mater took credit for the work when it was sent to the factory or customer. I was having him examine my engraved Ballard, to determine if it was Nimschke, an apprentice, or one of the other engravers Marlin used. If you look at this action, you can see the stamped borders on repetitive designs. The rest is Nimschke engraving. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7245 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #16 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 8:01pm	Print Post
	I think I know why the set trigger is bent like that. I put this rifle pic, next to Marlinguys picture and it looks like when they bent the loop up to the straight frame conture, it closes up on the rear trigger. What do you think? Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
	YIM AIM IP Logged

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15996 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #17 - Dec 24^th, 2014 at 11:23am	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 8:01pm: I think I know why the set trigger is bent like that. I put this rifle pic, next to Marlinguys picture and it looks like when they bent the loop up to the straight frame conture, it closes up on the rear trigger. What do you think? Frank I think the loop lever has definitely been reworked, since the action is a 3 line address, the odds are it was most likely a straight grip action. I'd guess well over 90% of the cast actions were straight grip, with only a handful of #3 PG actions. If you looks closely, you can see the lever has even been relieved behind the rear trigger to allow travel. It shows pretty well in the last picture of the receiver.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	IP Logged

rustyrelx Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 474 Location: Wallace Idaho Joined: Oct 9^th, 2007	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #18 - Feb 20^th, 2015 at 12:17pm	Print Post
	There are 2 distinct loop levers for pistol grip actions. So called a 3 finger and a 4 finger. The 3 finger is for double set Triggers. the 4 for a single trigger. Of note is the higher grade rifles using a single trigger had the correct 4 finger loop lever. All others had the 3 finger loop lever (almost). Earlier rifles had the correct matching loop lever ( 4 finger)and later rifles had the lever for double set triggers. Still the high quality had the 3 or 4 finger loop lever depending on which model it was. All #7's, all 4 1/2's had 4 finger loop levers. 6 1/2's and 9's had either. Of course the #8 and #10 had the 3 finger loop lever for the double set triggers. I'm thinking Marlin just put the 3 finger loop on and inventoried them just because it was economically reasonable..... Don


	IP Logged

.22Hepburn Oldtimer Offline Posts: 803 Location: Pennsylvania Joined: Feb 18^th, 2008	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #19 - Feb 22^nd, 2015 at 5:36pm	Print Post
	LRF, I have seen several Arthur Hubalek straight grip actions that have a steel spacer added to the back of the receiver. The spacer is approx 1/4 - 3/8" thick and flared to mate to a pistol grip stock. I have a very nice old stock set for a pistol grip action that I'd like to have fitted to one of my straight grip actions. I was thinking about a wood spacer, or possibly one like on these Hubaleks.


	Facebook IP Logged

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 574 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #20 - Feb 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00pm	Print Post
	Hi, Sounds interesting, do you have any pictures of the Hubalek?


	IP Logged

.22Hepburn Oldtimer Offline Posts: 803 Location: Pennsylvania Joined: Feb 18^th, 2008	Re: Another interesting stock/action interface Ballard Reply #21 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 9:01am	Print Post
	LRF, The Hubaleks belong to Gary Quinlan. The next time I get over to his place I'll take some pics and post.


	Facebook IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1]

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ASSRA Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge

Page completed in 0.4619 seconds.