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Dales
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Cork over the powder wads
Nov 26th, 2014 at 2:06pm
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While shooting at a match this fall I looked down the barrel of my bench rest rifle to see if I had seated  a bullet and there was a cork wad about 8" down the barrel. I pushed it out of the barrel and continued firing. I checked each time on the next 10 shots, 3 out of 10 times there was another wad. 
I was shooting a 32-40 ,Ac #9 and a 1/16th cork wad .200 off the powder with the powder settled against the primer.
After the 10 shots I started settling the powder against the wad and fired another 30+ shots and did not find another wad in the barrel.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Do you think it  possible that this could cause a ring in the barrel? 

I like using the wad as it seems to improve accuracy but do not like the idea of risking ringing barrels.

Would like to hear any thoughts on the subject.
Thanks Dale
  
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Oldman1950
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #1 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 5:34pm
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I have a CPA in 32-40 and I use Floral Foam. I now have about 400 shots down range. I have been able to shoot less than 3/4" at 100 yds. Am still doing load development. I am also cheep and the foam (wet type) cost next to nothing at Walmart. I slice it about 3/16" on the band saw.Some say I don't need a wad in the 32-40 but I like the Idea of keeping the powder next to the flash hole. I have tried IMR 4227 and AA9.
  
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Sendaro
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #2 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 5:56pm
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I do the same with the floral foam as Oldman1950, but I only plug the mouth of the case with a 1/4 thick plug of it. It's super easy by just pushing the charged case through the sheet of the foam. I also settle the powder in the case with a light tap on the bench and then carefully insert the primed and charged case. I think that it's the guys that shoot black powder that use the cork wads. In my 32-40 CPA barreled Stevens 44 1/2 I have used both IMR4227 and AA#9 successfully. Shooters have warned me about ringing the chamber with and over powder wad down on the powder charge and smokeless powder. So why take a chance? Sendaro
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #3 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 6:40pm
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Are you saying that the wad, placed over the powder, did not exit the barrel and yet the bullet did?

Chris.

  
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Dales
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #4 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 7:15pm
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Yes the over powder wad was still in the bore.
I have used floral foam wad in the case neck in a 30cal rifle I used earlier in the season, but it seamed to leave build up in the throat after a few shots.   
Not sure if foam would stay in place over the powder in a tapered case like the 32-40.

This year was my first attempt at bench rest (shot off hand in the past never tried BR) and I am still trying to find a setup that works for me. Any help is appreciated .

Dale
  
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boats
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #5 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 7:32pm
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Wad was probably cocked sideways.  32/40 case is long enough to get into CPA's action without wads. Avoid them unless absolutely needed. Short case guys need them.

Boats
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #6 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 8:35pm
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That's amazing that the wad was able to stay in the bore.  I imagine that Boat's guess is correct.  I use wads under the bases of my bullets ( I shoot black powder almost exclusively ) and I've had the wad stick to the seater when retracting it, and had it fall into the action.  It's amazing how a 0.030 wad can gum up an action Smiley

Boats,  do you advise no wads with both 4227 and SR-4759?   I've got a couple of pounds of SR-4759 to use up.

thanks,

Chris.
  
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boats
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #7 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am
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4227 or 4759 do best without wads in the 32/40 or 38/55. Only time I use wads is when breech seating 38/55 and a case full of black powder. It spills otherwise.

I shoot old shotguns with stacked wad loads. 3 or 4 wads in a shell.  Get one crooked sounds different when it goes off. Always look down the bore between shots often something left.  Thing is wads change the dynamics a lot. If they can be avoided it's better. Sometimes you have to use them.

Boats
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #8 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 9:06am
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I have a feeling that Boats is correct. The 32-40 is a tapered both inside and out. When using a 32-40 case I use a .33 wad and can still get it down only about half way before it loses its grip on the sides of the case. I have a feeling that the wad lays on the powder slump so it is cocked at an angle to the bore. When the shot is fired most of the pressure blows by the wad pushing it only part way up the barrel. 
  I have some Rocky mountain cases that are 32-40 but are bored with a straight chamber allowing me to put the .32 wad anywhere along the inside of the case. And have never had a wad in the barrel when using those cases.
  I have had wads stay in the case! Charlie Dell told me about this phenomenon and I didn’t believe him. But it has happened 3 times now I shoot everything is normal, but when I go to de cap the case the wad is in there. I can’t explain it but it does happen but rarely. 

40 Rod
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #9 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 10:09am
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That is amazing stuff, and definitely something I'll keep in mind when I start using up that SR-4759.

  I've shot many thousands of rounds with black powder and wads and have never had one in the barrel.  Maybe there is so much crap coming out of the barrel with BP that the wad always gets forced out.   I've had wads get shot out of the barrel and get blown by the wind back onto my feet though Smiley.

Chris.

  
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boats
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 10:44am
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Black in the 32/40 is different fills the case cork is right on top, not to mention all the solids blowing out as it burns.

When I started shooting Schuetzen at Charlie Dells used pre charged 32/40 cases 4227 cork wad. Made up a seater to put the wad same place every time.

Charlie looked at my cases told me to buy a micrometer measure charge as I shot and forget the wads. Stopped by Harrell's as I drove home. Bought one of his measures and have not used wads in big cases with light charges since.

Don't see any way a cork wad can be positioned repeateably in a regular 32/40 case unless it sits firm on powder at the mouth.

Boats
  
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Dales
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #11 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 10:48am
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The wads I used are approx. .400 in dia and I used a flat bottom punch with a wing nut on threaded top for a stop to locate in the case .  they might have tipped but not to sure.  May be when primer fires it pushed powder into wad before it started burning.

Dale
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #12 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 10:50am
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   Some years ago, Charlie Dell and I were experimenting with wad behavior.  One experiment was to use "fake" powder, made of chopped nylon monofilament.   Bullet was seated in the bbl,  fake powder charged in a 32Dell case, wad placed on or somewhat above the powder,  and fired.   In each trial, the ENTIRE powder charge came to rest at the base of the bullet, with the wad in the MIDDLE of the charge.  This observation was possible because the nylon "grains" were lightly sintered together into a more-or-less solid chunk.
   So there is a lot of counter-intuitive stuff going on in there.

CHRIS
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #13 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 10:57am
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   It is readily possible to firmly seat a card wad in a case with a tapered inside.    I use card wads punched from 6-pak cartons.  (ask a friend to save some for you!)   For 32-40 or 8.15x46R, I use wads ca 360-370 diameter.   Charge the powder, crease the wad so it will slip in the case, then use a plunger to push it down, with the crease "up".   As it opens out, it will fit snugly against the case walls at any point you want.

CHRIS
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boats
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Re: Cork over the powder wads
Reply #14 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 1:13pm
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Chris

I can see firm on top of the powder, difficulty is when you try  to seat some measured distance over the powder.   Only thing holding the wad in place is  the wads edge and its a tapered wall.  Just can't imagine consistent without powder supporting the wad.

Then again my only experience was one failed attempt.

Boats
  
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