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Salvo
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Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Nov 14th, 2014 at 12:26pm
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I have a late model 1885 in 270 WSM and thought to try a reduced load for target and small game shooting.

The magnum loads will only be used when hunting big game, and the rest of the year I will use reduced loads for 100 yard target and small game shooting. This will preserve my barrel and cut down on shooting expenses dramatically.

This way, I can have lots of fun shooting this beautiful rifle year-round, without burning up the barrel. Recoil and noise are greatly reduced.

Hornady 130 grn SP, 27 grains of AA5744, Winchester magnum primers for an estimated 2050 fps.

Here is a five-shot group at 50 yards. All into 1/2", center to center.

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I have 110 grain HP bullets coming in that may do better.



« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2014 at 12:34pm by »  
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Salvo
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 10:09pm
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Shooting these reduced loads in my 270 WSM is really enjoyable, taking me back to the rifle that first got me interested in the 1885 Winchester, an original low-wall that a buddy of mine owned almost thirty years ago.

His rifle was well-worn, with little of the original finish remaining, but he had a loading setup for the 25-20 rounds with cast bullets and black powder. I remember that the gun lacked a front sight, but we improvised with modeling clay and a broken off toothpick to get his old gun in action.

Shooting these cream-puff reduced loads takes me back, reminding me of that old low-wall, and all of the fun we had shooting it out of the sliding glass back door from his living room.

I'd like to buy an original in a soft-shooting chambering some day, but I am hesitant because in my ignorance I would probably wind up with something that had problems beyond my ability to address.

I've noticed that Cimarron markets new 1885 replicas with double-set triggers in 32-20, 38-40 etc.. I wonder if these are quality firearms. 

In the mean-time, I will enjoy shooting what I have. I am very pleased with the accuracy of my reduced loads in this late model Miroku/Winchester 1885.

Today I mounted a Leupold Vx1 2-7x33 compact scope on my 1885. the small eyepiece on this compact scope gives me plenty of room to manipulate the hammer, load the rifle, etc..



« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2014 at 6:13pm by »  
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #2 - Nov 19th, 2014 at 6:38am
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I have probably shot 10 times as many 1600 fps 30/06 rounds as full power. Lot of fun easy on the shoulder. My Lever Silhouette match rifle Marlin 36a 30/30 1900 fps 170 gr Ram loads CPT loads 110 gr at 1600 Fps.

Easy shooting straight case fixed bullet, 38/55. Personally with no hands on experience, would not consider the Cimmaron. Imports stay with the Mikro Winchesters.

I shoot the pistol calibers in NRA PC lever silhouette. 32/20 now 38/40 fun but short range. They run out of gas at 200. Great 100 yard cartridges.

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #3 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 8:26am
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Most of the Powder "makers" and many of the bullet mfgs have on-line or telephone contact reloading tech-support that can advise on safe reduced loads.

While most of us are focussed on the older-style straighter walled cases w/lead bullets for target shooting;  accuracy can be had using bottle neck cases at low velocities with either cast or jacketed bullets.
  One of my "Schuetzen" rifles is an original Swiss  Hammereli Martini made in the late 20's/early 30's for Intl. Free-Rifle competition in the 7.5x55 Swiss military hardball match round----basically like a hot '03 Springfield round.     It responds very well to charges of 4759 and cast bullets and would probably work well with 4227 as well.  It handles modern Swiss ammo loaded for the K-31 and their LMGs with out a hiccup  albeit with more recoil and muzzle blast.

Personally I'd avoid using small charges of any of the faster ball powders in a higher-volume case; or other powders in reduced volume charges that are at all position sensitive.

an alternative is to have brass cases made that are configured externally as the bottlenecked case but with a very thick wall and a straight bored powder chamber that allows small charges. I have done this originally to make cases for an oddball BN-Mauser style case for a break-open German "stalking rifle".   I also have done this with .220 swift cases for my Ruger #1.  I can shoot cast bullets at 22 rimfire velocities, or load up to lower range 22 hornet loads using those cases.
  

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uscra112
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #4 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 8:30am
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Looking at that group, I'm not inclined to offer any more advice to the O.P.

  

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Salvo
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #5 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 9:23pm
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I like to shoot a couple of times a week, and was concerned about burning up the throat of the magnum with casual shooting. I own a bore scope and have seen what can easily happen to a magnum.

On the other hand, I sure didn't want to park the gun in the safe and not shoot it. Really, a reduced load seemed like my best option so that I could shoot the rifle regularly without harming it. Reduced expense was another consideration.

I saw some reduced loads using AA5744 in the Speer manual, and some others in the Accurate Arms data sheet. - I kind of split the difference on the Speer starting load and max load they listed.

I have read that reduced loads, particularly in fat cases do not work out well, but noted that the guys having poor luck were using tiny charges of Bullseye or Titegroup, stuff like that. It seemed that the problem there was erratic ignition. They were tipping the barrel up before firing, etc. in an attempt to get a few grains of the fast stuff to light up consistently in the fat case.

The AA5744 develops some pressure and ignites easily. The 270 WSM case winds up being about 1/3 full with the 27 grain charge I am trying. I stuck with magnum primers, and gave the rounds a good crimp, all in the interest of consistent ignition. 
The primers after firing were still rounded, but there were no signs of gas getting past them to etch the falling block, another common problem with light loads that you have to look out for.

The target I showed was from the first group I tried. Today my son got three rounds into the same hole at 50 yards without making it bigger. The other two rounds opened up the group to the average we've been getting, around .450" for five shots at 50 yards.

It was just dumb luck that I stumbled upon something useful with the first try. Usually I burn an awful lot of powder trying to get an accurate load of any kind. I'm still kind of flabbergasted as to how I lucked out, there.

  
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #6 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 9:49pm
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I don't know anything about WSM's but rimless cases best to separate low power brass from full power brass. Striker sets the shoulder back not enough preassure to reform the case.   30/06 in 03 Springfields, strong striker spring, this is a real issue you can get a ruptured case with a full power load in a case with sent back shoulder. Rimmed case like 30 US not a problem.

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uscra112
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #7 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 4:41am
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The only fast powder for light loads is Red Dot, because it's bulky.     (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I also like Blue Dot for 7.5x55 loads in the 1600 fps to 2000 fps range.   Using some samples of an Eagan MX-3 GC cast 21 BHN my bone stock K-31 has shot some very good groups.   

Shoulder setback is caused by the primer explosion, not the striker.  Pistol primers are often substituted to reduce the primer energy, and thus the setback.  I had to learn this for my first cast bullet rifle, a .35 Remington which has almost no shoulder.   That fat WSM may have enough shoulder that it will be a minor problem.   

Cheers !

Phil
  

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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #8 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 7:19am
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It may be the primer however my reduced velocity loads showed it in 03 Springfields not in Remmington 700 30/06 rifles. It may be difference in chambers too.

One of the better manuals with reduced load information is Sharpes Complete Guide.  He classes them in two categories. Sub sonic mostly with fast pistol powders, mid range about 1600 fps.

Only sub sonic I have experience with is 32/40 using Unique.  Most of my loading bottle neck cases reduced was 1600 fps using about 16 grs of 4759 in 30 cals.

Whatever the reason best segregate reduced load cases.

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Salvo
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #9 - Nov 22nd, 2014 at 1:37pm
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Later today I'll be trying reduced 270 WSM loads that emulate the 6.8SPC cartridge (100 grn bullet at 2500 fps) , and the 270 Winchester (130 grn bullet at 3100 fps).

I'm hoping the 270 Winchester emulating loads will work well, as they would be about right for whitetails and pigs.

They are very close to 270 WSM starting loads, so I won't be pushing the pressure envelope, there.

  
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Salvo
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 9:44pm
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Am happy to report good groups with loads reduced to emulate 6.8 SPC and 270 Winchester. Also, for the first time I got good groups with full-power 270 WSM loads. 

All three loads shot very similar groups around 3/4", but at different levels vertically. The hotter the load, the higher it shot.

My son had only shot the magnum loads from the bench, and when I suggested he try a few shots while standing up, he was amazed at the reduced perception of recoil. We fired twenty full-power rounds at steel as he started to master shooting from a standing position, and I got in a little practice.

Lots of fun, all around. 

Now it's back to the soft-shooting 2000 fps loads until a hunting opportunity presents itself.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Reduced loads for 270 WSM
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2014 at 10:31am
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Good luck and safe hunting.  keep us informed.

I'd really like to see more about the use of our singles shots in the hunting forests and fields.
  

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