Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Help with 7mm Rolling Block (Read 6626 times)
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Oct 25th, 2014 at 10:33pm
Print Post  
Been trying to load cast bullets for a Rem. RB 1902 7mm without much sucess. Bore measures .288 but I am sure the throat is much larger. I have a Loverin design 150gr Lyman mould . This bullet is key holeing when sized to bore. I am now up to .292 diameter and it is still key holeing. Powder charge is 10.5 Unique. Any suggestions?  Undecided Undecided
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2128
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #1 - Oct 26th, 2014 at 12:07am
Print Post  
Try a 170 grain jacketed bullet and a smokeless powder load down under 30,000 psi.  If it shoots okay, then you know it's something with your bullet/load, and not the rifle.

The first thing I'd try with the lead bullet is something slower burning and more case filling than the Unique.  I'd think Varget or IMR 4895 in the 18 to 20 grain range would give you consistency without excessive pressure and would keep the velocity down.  You might have to go to a heavier bullet to get the velocity down to cast bullet range without using pistol powders. If you can get a gas check bullet, I'd try that. 

dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2014 at 9:18am
Print Post  
Thanks for the suggestions. Will load up a few jacket rounds and see how it plays out. Like you mentioned I too, thought of changing the powder for the .293 diameter cast bullet. I have some 4227 and 4198 I could try?
Question what Lyman or RCBS bullet would you try?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seanmp
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: Land O Lakes
Joined: May 19th, 2014
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #3 - Oct 26th, 2014 at 9:33am
Print Post  
Can we get a bit more background data
Twist rate
Bullet length
What distances have you tested
  

Sean
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bisaacson
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 170
Location: Kailua
Joined: Sep 1st, 2009
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #4 - Oct 26th, 2014 at 10:34pm
Print Post  
My No. 5 RB likes a hard cast .288" RNGC from CBE, with 13.5 gr. of Blue Dot, shoots to POA with the sights set at 500m with 2" or so groups, if I do my part. Keep at it, they'll shoot.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2994
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #5 - Oct 27th, 2014 at 3:21am
Print Post  
If you read Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading" in some detail, you will find references to his 1902 rolling block in 7x57. It was new when he got it.  In the late 30s it had a big Unertl scope.  He used it for testing European ammo and bullets.   

The book also has lots of loads for 7mm rollers.

Sharpe's book is now in the public domain and can be downloaded either free or for very little.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #6 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 9:48am
Print Post  
Seanmp wrote on Oct 26th, 2014 at 9:33am:
Can we get a bit more background data
Twist rate
Bullet length
What distances have you tested
   

Sorry for the long delay with a answer.
Twist is 1-9
Bullet Length 1.10 inch Lyman 287405 Loverin design
Distance 25 yards
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4412
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2014 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
Found my old data card for my RB carbine. With the 169 grain RCBS bullet it liked 20 grains of 4198 or 16 grains of 2400 or 24 grains of 4895. With a 150 grain Lyman Loverin it liked 14 grains of 2400 or 20 grains of 4198 or especially 19 grains of 2015. I should add that the brass was concentrically fire formed to the chamber and thereafter only neck sized.
« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2014 at 4:49pm by oneatatime »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2014 at 10:51pm
Print Post  
I finally gave up on the Lyman 150gr Loverin design. Going to try Lyman 287308 and see what happens,
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seanmp
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: Land O Lakes
Joined: May 19th, 2014
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #9 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 9:25am
Print Post  
I think this one is fairly easy. I found a nice drawing of your bullet and ran the numbers through a stability program.

The stability of the 150gr bullet is quite high at 3.1 to 3.2 at MV. This is certainly high enough to lock the attitude of the bullet for a good distance from the muzzle.

All bullets kick out at the base as they leave the crown. Perfect crown with a perfect base kicks out the least. But if either of the two factors is less than perfect the amount the bullet kicks out increases. 

With a SF as high as 3.1 the bullet will be locked into this kicked out base position until drag can take effect and gradually reduce the tail wobble to stable flight. Your target distance of 25yds is likely showing you a snapshot of the bullet still frozen.

If you shoot a set at 100yds you would likely see a different picture. However if the bullet is wildly veering at the muzzle group size will suffer.

I shot a 45-70 at the Wilton match that didnt settle down until the 200 yd mark. The group size was significantly better at 200 than at 100. This was seen by many.
  

Sean
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 9:07am
Print Post  
Bullet would not stay on paper at 25 yards. I do not think it would even hit paper at 100. Jacket work but really want to use cast. Hoping the Lyman 287308 at 165gr with gas check might work when sized to .293-.295
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Babits
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1144
Joined: Sep 27th, 2012
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 9:25am
Print Post  
I've been using the RCBS  168 grain gas check bullet cast of #2 alloy for many years.  Sized to .285 and driven by 21.5 grains of 4198; CCI #200 primer.  Brass is made from military 30-06 which is a good bit heavier than commercial 7 mm brass.  This is a fun load, not a target load and works well in both my Remington rolling block rifle and carbine.   As I recall, the velocity out of the rifle is about 1825 fps.  The load was designed for the rifle, but works fine in the carbine too (luck).  According to Barnes, the original 7mm round used a 173 grain bullet at about 2296 fps.  That tells me that a heavier bullet should shoot better.
Of course that also assumes that your bore is half way decent.

Good luck,
George
Salmon, Idaho
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brstevens
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 42
Location: Arnold
Joined: Sep 27th, 2013
Re: Help with 7mm Rolling Block
Reply #12 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 12:50pm
Print Post  
George Babits wrote on Nov 10th, 2014 at 9:25am:
I've been using the RCBS  168 grain gas check bullet cast of #2 alloy for many years.  Sized to .285 and driven by 21.5 grains of 4198; CCI #200 primer.  Brass is made from military 30-06 which is a good bit heavier than commercial 7 mm brass.  This is a fun load, not a target load and works well in both my Remington rolling block rifle and carbine.   As I recall, the velocity out of the rifle is about 1825 fps.  The load was designed for the rifle, but works fine in the carbine too (luck).  According to Barnes, the original 7mm round used a 173 grain bullet at about 2296 fps.  That tells me that a heavier bullet should shoot better.
Of course that also assumes that your bore is half way decent.

Good luck,
George
Salmon, Idaho
 
Bore is not bad better then fair. I get .288 when slugged. I do know the throat is .296. I just could not get that Lyman 287405 to shoot. Hope the heavier 287308 might work better. Still might have to go up to .295-296
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint