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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) trailboss (Read 13543 times)
Hank45
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trailboss
Oct 15th, 2014 at 6:19am
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How much trail boss in the .22 hornet and .28/30? Thanks for your answer Hank45
  
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rfd
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Re: trailboss
Reply #1 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 6:39am
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do a google search for "trail boss loads" - lots of info abounds.

from hodgdon ...

IMR® TRAIL BOSS® REDUCED LOADS
FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL

As noted in the powder description section, Trail Boss was designed primarily for reduced loads using lead bullets in pistol
cartridges. However, Trail Boss offers superb versatility in rifle cartridges producing reduced loads using lead or jacketed bullets.

These reduced loads make firing such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum or even the 458 Winchester Magnum pure fun!
Listed below we show a few examples of such loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you
don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to
follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:

1) Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at
this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your
maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

2) Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting
load.

3) Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate
reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!
  

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Hank45
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Re: trailboss
Reply #2 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 9:18am
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rfd, I breech seat these two cartridges  so is there any difference in load data between bullet in case and bullet put in throat of rifle? Thanks for your answer Hank45
  
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rfd
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Re: trailboss
Reply #3 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 9:49am
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i don't know much about breach loading, but the main thing with trail boss (and almost all smokeless powders) is don't compress it.

with that in mind, i can get 18.5 grains of tb under a 405 boolit in a starline .45-70 case and just have that boolit touch the rifling.  i've loaded that bullet/case with 18 grains of tb and it's not compressed and no pressure issues.
  

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Hank45
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Re: trailboss
Reply #4 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 7:07am
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What is difference between one grain of 1F black and trail smokeless? Thanks for your answerHank45
  
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rfd
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Re: trailboss
Reply #5 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 7:11am
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Hank45 wrote on Oct 19th, 2014 at 7:07am:
What is difference between one grain of 1F black and trail smokeless? Thanks for your answerHank45


other than they're totally different forms of firearm powder, what does it matter?
  

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creedmoormatch
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Re: trailboss
Reply #6 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 8:59am
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What is difference between one grain of 1F black and trail smokeless? Thanks for your answerHank45



The question is irrelevant, i.e., it has no application to the reloading of ammunition process as practiced by well informed practitioners.

If you are attempting to make a comparison of some sort, please rephrase your question to solicit the specific information you are seeking.

CMM
  
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cheatin_charlie
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Re: trailboss
Reply #7 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 12:18pm
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Hank45 wrote on Oct 19th, 2014 at 7:07am:
What is difference between one grain of 1F black and trail smokeless? Thanks for your answerHank45

One grain is one grain, like which is heavier a pound of lead or a pound of feathers.
If you are trying to make a direct comparison between black and trailboss, you don't even want to go there!
  
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Hank45
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Re: trailboss
Reply #8 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 1:11pm
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I want to load trailboss into my black powder cartridges, what I need to know is how much trail boss to use to get a comparative load to black powder? Thanks for your answer Hank
  
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gunlaker
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Re: trailboss
Reply #9 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 1:31pm
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From my limited experience with Trailboss, there really aren't equivalent loads to BP.  With a max load of Trailboss, pressure will be nearly twice as high as with BP, and velocities lower.   That might not be the case with small volume cartridges though.

Chris.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: trailboss
Reply #10 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 2:47pm
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Quote:
I'm not a chemist, engineer, ballistician, gunsmith or personal injury lawyer; my opinions are just... opinion. 
    Hank's simple question didn't seem irrelevant to me.  A honest inquiry here ought to deserve a attempt at a - - - - - - - - -


I would respectfully disagree with your conclusions for the following reasons. 

1) Every inquiry presented does not warrant a response, simply because the question is asked.

2) Wanting to appear knowledgeable to the readership should never be the sole ground for responding to an inquiry that is presented.

3)  Wanting to increase one's posting count should never be the sole ground for responding to an inquiry that is presented.

4)  Sometimes the response to an inquiry is best couched by an admission that "one does not know the information sought."

5)  Sometimes the response to an inquiry is best referred to a more learned or higher authority.

6)  Sometime the response to an inquiry has to include an admonition for the benefit and/or safety of the inquirer and others who may apply the information provided to their determent.

7)  Sometimes the response to an inquiry has to be a respectful decline to provide a response without a reason given, should the responder   determines that the reason will serve no value or purpose to the inquirer.

8)  Sometime a parent has to say to little Johnny, "NO, you must not do that" because little Johnny doesn't have the maturity to know that what he wants to do present a clear and present danger to his safety and well being.

Regards, 

Creedmoormatch
  
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craigster
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Re: trailboss
Reply #11 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 4:35pm
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rfd wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 9:49am:
i don't know much about breach loading, but the main thing with trail boss (and almost all smokeless powders) is don't compress it.

with that in mind, i can get 18.5 grains of tb under a 405 boolit in a starline .45-70 case and just have that boolit touch the rifling.  i've loaded that bullet/case with 18 grains of tb and it's not compressed and no pressure issues.


Compressed loads in centerfire rifle cartridges are not at all uncommon. In certain applications, they're even preferred.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: trailboss
Reply #12 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 6:59pm
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I wonder what the actual pressure is for that load.  Hodgdon's shows 26500 CUP for 13 grains under a 405gr bullet.  That gives just over 1000fps.

Hank I have played with Trail Boss in the .45-70.  Mostly plinking, but I did try to work up accurate loads for a Ruger #1.   At 100m I was able to shoot 5 shot groups at 1.5 moa IIRC,  but by 200m, vertical dispersion was shockingly bad.   

It might work better in the smaller cartridges though.  If you decide to mess with it, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

Chris.
  
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rfd
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Re: trailboss
Reply #13 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 8:30pm
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craigster wrote on Oct 19th, 2014 at 4:35pm:
rfd wrote on Oct 15th, 2014 at 9:49am:
i don't know much about breach loading, but the main thing with trail boss (and almost all smokeless powders) is don't compress it.

with that in mind, i can get 18.5 grains of tb under a 405 boolit in a starline .45-70 case and just have that boolit touch the rifling.  i've loaded that bullet/case with 18 grains of tb and it's not compressed and no pressure issues.


Compressed loads in centerfire rifle cartridges are not at all uncommon. In certain applications, they're even preferred.


imho, smokeless compressed loads are not the norm, nor should be advocated unless the persons attempting such loads do so with both intelligence and experience since all will be at or beyond a max load.

that said, i see no earthly reason to compress trail boss - it's not the same as the holy black.

to the op -  the most yer gonna get out of trail boss as a replacement of sorts for a bp load is near 100% case capacity for a specific bullet's seat depth, with regards to the cartridge oal and ogive seating.  i'd start of with a 70-75% charge and work upwards.
  

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Re: trailboss
Reply #14 - Oct 19th, 2014 at 9:52pm
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I never said they were the norm. I said they were not uncommon. Take a look at Hodgon's load data for the 308 Wichester and you will find more than a few compressed loads.
  
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