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JackHughs
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A Win 296 Observation
Aug 28th, 2014 at 1:10am
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This story starts with a friend gifting me 100 bullets to try in my .32 RKS Miller.

The gift bullets measure .320-1 on the base band tapering to .314 at the base of the ogive and weigh 200.5 grains cast in 20/1 alloy.  My normal bullets measure .324-5 on the base band tapering to .314 at the base of the ogive and weigh 207.5 grains cast in 20/1 alloy.

The best powder charges for my normal bullets are 13.1 grains of AA 4100 and 13.7 grains of 296.  10-shot vertical dispersion at 200 yards stays between 3/4" and 1 1/4" for both loads.

As you have already figured, the gift bullets seat a whole lot easier than the normal bullets.

I first tried the gift bullets with 13.1 grains of 4100.  The performance was very good - 1/2" to 5/8" 10-shot vertical dispersion at 200 yards.

I then tried the gift bullets with 13.7 grains of 296.  The performance was awful - 7" 10-shot vertical dispersion at 200 yards. 

I think that the abject failure of 296 with the gift bullets shows that 296 needs a lot more "back-pressure" (for lack of a better word) to ensure consistent shot-to-shot ignition than the 4100.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

JackHughs
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: A Win 296 Observation
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2014 at 9:47am
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Jack:

Do you have a RKS barrel as well.
He cuts them .321 groove-to-groove.
With .320 bullets you could be getting gas cutting around the gift bullets unless you bump them with a heavy powder charge to swell the base.

Dave
  
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7groove
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Re: A Win 296 Observation
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2014 at 10:43am
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Jack
While the cause of your vertical dispersion could/can be too small a bullet for the bore, I suspect  that the primer used may not be hot enough to uniformly ignite the 296 powder. Pressure tests I have done has shown that 296 and 4100 have similar pressure rise times when breech seated bullets are used. Each formulation of powder has whats called working pressure, if the minimum pressure is not reached pressures/velocities will be erratic. Too light a powder charge may also contribute to vertical dispersion also. Its been my experience that reduced capacity cases (32-40 vs 32 Miller Short) are more sensitive to slight changes of powder charges.
B Darr
« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2014 at 10:56am by »  
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frnkeore
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Re: A Win 296 Observation
Reply #3 - Aug 28th, 2014 at 12:41pm
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I used a lot of Win 296 back between 1988 - 91 in 32/40 and it behaves very well with low pressure loads and pistol primers. I shot both PB and GC, BSed at up to 20 gr. If chrono numbers are a indication of good verticle, in the 12.5 - 13.0 range with F150's, I got 6 - 8 fps, ES with 2.5 - 4 fps SD. One day, I shot a 15 gr load with a RL bullet at 11 ES and 4.1 SD and a 210 gr GC bullet and 20 gr with a ES of 9 and a SD of 4.3. A VERY cold day @ 25 deg (YES, 25 deg, it was in '90 and I was much tougher and more dedicated then Smiley ).

My wife is using it in her 30-32/20, It's showing promise but, I haven't chrono'ed it yet and I may soon try it in my 33 ELCO but, not untill it cools.

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: A Win 296 Observation
Reply #4 - Aug 28th, 2014 at 2:47pm
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Don't rule out the use of Large Rifle Magnum primers as an ignition source to further induce a complete Powder burn. 300MP has been my powder of choice in my 32-40, Pistol Primers and Standard Large Rifle primers will leave unburnt powder in the bore of which is conducive to extreme velocity spreads and increased fouling. The Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers for me provide a more complete and clean burn and greatly reduced fouling. The recommendation from several of the leading ball powder manufactures all recommend the use of Mag. Primers with their Ball Powder Products due to them being exceptionally harder to iginite. Unfortunatly that recommendation is avoided like a plague when it should actually be embraced and well worth giving them a try. Taking your current load and simply switching primers for comparison sake for me has not worked me. It requires starting from scratch and developing a new load specifically for there use.

I hope this information is helpful, it has worked extremely well for me as well as others.

JLouis








  

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JackHughs
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Re: A Win 296 Observation
Reply #5 - Aug 28th, 2014 at 3:47pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Aug 28th, 2014 at 9:47am:
Jack:

Do you have a RKS barrel as well.
He cuts them .321 groove-to-groove.
With .320 bullets you could be getting gas cutting around the gift bullets unless you bump them with a heavy powder charge to swell the base.

Dave


Hi,

Yes.  The barrel is a 23 - 11.5 twist RKS.   I was a bit concerned about gas cutting with the small base diameter gift bullet but it didn't happen.  The bullet worked just fine with 4100 - good vertical dispersion and no leading.

There was also no leading with the gift bullet using 296. The only odd behavior was the vertical stringing of the gift bullet using 296.  That is, 13.7 grains of 296 results in 1 1/4" vertical dispersion with my normal bullet but 7" of vertical dispersion with the gift bullet. 

I have a few of the gift bullets left,  I'll try then with heavier charges of 296 and see what happens.

JackHughs
  

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.  W.B. Yeats
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