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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 25 cal (Read 10227 times)
George Babits
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #15 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 9:16pm
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Up until just about now I thought that a 32-20 was a 32-20. Guess you learn something every day.  Traditionally the 32-20 was a .308 to .312 groove diameter.  I generally use a .311 bullet in all three of mine.  But, a .321;  that's something "new?"  and with 180/190 grain bullets.  Kind of defeats the purpose of the original intent of the 32-20 as a small game cartridge.   Re-inventing the wheel I guess.   I am reminded of something J.Rabbeth, who developed the 25-20 SS in the 1880's penned:  Something to the effect that people turned an excellent small game cartridge into a mediorce target round.  Sounds like the "modern" 32-20 is going the same way.  Of all the obsolete 32 calibers, only the 32 Remington listed a bullet over 165 grains.  Most used 150 grain bullets.  I'm wondering what sort of velocities y'all are talking about with a 190 grain bullet in the 32-20 case?  I'd guess that to get it to 11100 fps you'd need a pretty good charge of bullseye or bluedot.  No wonder cases are coming apart.   

George
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #16 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 10:02pm
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George,
To give you a brief history on the "modern" 32/20. You can blame it on the success of the 32 Miller Short. Like every successful thing, people were looking for even better so, CPA tried necking up the 32/20, it had a case capacity simular to the 32 Miller and no real work to form it, like the Miller. Thus, the CPA 32/20 (.321) came about.

TC chambered a lot of their pistols in 32/20 (.308) with a faster twist rate and to my knowledge, that is how that 32/20 became popular with a faster (heavier bullet) twist rate.

In my "case", I got involved because I had a 44 Stevens (model 45) that had been a 32/40 and I wanted to build a lighter but, competitive rifle for my wife. For the 44 I needed as small a case head as possible to reduce the thrust on the 44 breech block so, I decided to use the 32/20 case. I would have used the 32 Ideal case (same size case head) but, finding them is a problem!!!

I had heard that people were have problems with the .321 32/20 but, I had a fast twist barrel and intended to hold velocity to <1300 fps with H108 powder but, it wasn't working. I seperated 1 case and had several partials. 

Then one day I found this XX Douglas, 12 twist, 32/20 barrel on Ebay. All set up for a small thread HW and what did I have in my safe? Of course a small thread HW that I wasn't using. Call me a slow learner Smiley I of course know why it was a "take off", he ran out of cases Smiley I am getting better case life with the 296 powder though.

Any way, I may rechamber it to use a 357 Mag case and put this case problem behind me. A good secondary effect will be to help in the cause of less confusion regarding the 32/20.

To answer your question about velocity, I'm getting 1400 fps with 10.0 gr of 296 in a 26" barrel.

Frank
  

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bnice
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #17 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 10:56pm
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I know this is going to stir up a bunch of hot comments and I am sorry but I have to ask, is the 32-20 WCF in .321 considered a tradional acceptable chamber or not? Also I have seen several posts about case life for the .321 version, is this a common issue and has it been curable through a powder choice, bullet weight, or case brand as hinted at in this blog.
  
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JLouis
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #18 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 10:56pm
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George I have seen bullets over 200gr. bullets pushed to 1500fps, thats where it shines in one particular rifle. One of the powders of choice is AA4100 and its asking allot out the case. I like to think of them as little time bombs, right on the upper limits of maximum pressure and it doesn't take much to send one over the top. Case life is short, 10 to 12 shots and you have to keep an eye on signs of case seperation. It was very popular here for awile and those that were shooting them have since re-chambered and went back to the 32-40 and right where they started. There is one exception of which sits in a safe and that fellow also went back to shooting one of his 32-40's. I might also add that they shoot extremely good if you have the patience of Job and big pockets for replacement cases.

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #19 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 11:15pm
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Brice the most successful shooter at our club with the CPA 32-20 found it took three firings for a new case to settle down, his case life was 10-12 firings and being forced to use multiple cases to get through a match he also had to fire sort the cases to identify those that threw shots out of the group. They simply became scrap metal and were tossed and that he would buy a box of 500 cases to get him through one year of competition including practice sessions. I hope that answers your question and AA-4100 is a powder that was easy on the case life. In practice session I have seen one, two and up to three case separations in one days outing. A cerrosafe kit became a standard shooting box item to remove the seperations. 

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #20 - Aug 8th, 2014 at 11:28pm
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Brice my understanding is it does meet the traditional rules but please don't take that as being Gospel.

I might also add there are some clubs who do not have a 200yd. Range for their Schuetzen matches so they shoot the Matches at 100yds. I do not believe they have to push their 200gr. bullets as hard and that case life might not be an issue for them or a lesser one?

JLouis
  

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George Babits
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #21 - Aug 9th, 2014 at 12:49pm
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It's interesting how this thread shifted gears from 25-20 to the 32-20 and its hybreds.  That's what makes this forum interesting.

I'm working on a 25-20 SS LoWall and that was  what caught my eye back at the beginning.  I am still scrubbing, but have everything on the way to see if it will shoot.  If it doesn't, I've gotten some ideas here on possible things to, or not to, rebore it to.

I'm more of a traditionalist, preferring to stick with more or less original loadings.  That is easy for me because I'm not a benchrest shooter and most original loadings will do better than I can sitting or offhand.   

George
  
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JLouis
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #22 - Aug 9th, 2014 at 8:20pm
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George don't give up on the 25WCF it's a match winner and its extremely popular out the this way with just about everyone at our club and Jerry_H's as well are using it now. Jerry_H has shot 2ea. 250's in seperate matches and I believe he is the only one to do so to date. Feel free
to PM him if you would like the specific.

JLouis
  

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George Babits
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #23 - Aug 9th, 2014 at 9:48pm
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JLouis,

First of all it is a 25-20 SS, not a WCF.  But, I haven't started yet.  Still in the cleaning stage.  This was one of those rifles that I couldn't pass up.  I see a LoWall action on GunBroker with an opening bid of almost twice what I paid for the whole rifle.  The bore is so-so maybe.  Looks about like one of my 32-20 M-1892's.  The '92 shoots good  so the LoWall is going to get a good wringing out before I give up.  I would much rather keep things original if I can.  I haven't been able to measure the twist, though I've tried.  I can't get my cleaning rod to rotate no matter how tight the patch.  I have 75 grain bullets and brass on the way.  The dies and shell holder ane on the bench.  A couple more days of letting Hoppe's #9 soak and I'll call it clean.  In a few weeks I'll know a whole lot more.

George
  
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #24 - Aug 13th, 2014 at 7:54am
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George, I may have missed it but are you shooting fixed ammo or breech seating. All this about case seperation problems is new to me in single shots. Have seen in in modern rifles where the brass was over sized and the case failed in front of the web. I don't see how that should be a problem with breech seating bullets. I also have a 25-20SS. Mine is a Stevens 44 in great condition, but with fixed ammo it shoot around 2MOA. I'm in the proess of buying a mold to cast a tapered bullet designed for breech seating. I believe this should help with accuracy.

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George Babits
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #25 - Aug 13th, 2014 at 9:33am
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I haven't even loaded up any ammo for it yet, so no case separations.  That was someone else using the CPA version of the 32-20 I think.  Anyway,  I'll be using fixed ammunition as I am not a benchrest shooter.  Just waiting for the brass now.   My hope is that this rifle will replace the 22 Ballard until the 22 ammunition madness ends.

George
  
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JLouis
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #26 - Aug 13th, 2014 at 9:48am
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George check your PM's.

JLouis
  

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George Babits
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Re: 25 cal
Reply #27 - Aug 13th, 2014 at 12:35pm
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Checked and replied.  Thanks

George
  
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