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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ammo no longer in production (Read 22694 times)
fredd3039
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #15 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 10:29pm
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Colin Stolzer manufactures rifles without an FFL and sells them. SELLS THEM!!!! Thats right MAKES THEM AND SELLS THEM WITHOUT AN FFL!!!!! Everyone that keeps telling me this is illegal can please stop now. I know Colin personally. He sends the ATF tech branch a pre 1898 patent drawing and a cartridge spec sheet and they send him a letter that says yes you can make this and sell it or no you can't. It is that simple.
  
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JS47
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #16 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 11:32pm
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I know it's none of my business but I have been reminded here that this is part of the World Wide Web.  It's not that I'm paranoid but if I were going to carry on a conversation like this I'd mail letters through the post office and burn them after they were read.  They may be watching!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #17 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 1:48am
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All Frank Wesson cartridges are obsolete, as listed below:

Frank Wesson Cartridges

Caliber      Bullet Dia.      Case length      Rim Dia.      Neck Dia.      Base Dia.
30/15            .310            1.550            .410            .339            .342
30/30             .308         1.640               .436         .329        .377   
30/40            .308            1.630            .436            .329            .377
32/25            .318            1.615            .380            .318            .320
35 Wssn         .350            2.500            .500            .378            .435
40/60            .404            2.210            .553            .426            .455
40/70            .401            2.310            .530            .425            .462
42 Wssn         .429            2.500            .507            .448            .449
42/100        .429            2.910            .505            .448            .449
44 Ex long       .440            1.630            .510            .441            .441
44/85            .466            2.880            .605            .515            .515
44/90            .451            2.500            .663            .487            .537
44/100            .445            3.380            .605            .515            .515
50 Wssn          .501            1.875            .610            .526            .537

In addition to:

All Maynard cartridges.

Many BP wildcats, such as 28 cal - 32 XL (Frank Weson), 28 cal - 32/35, 28 cal - 32 Ideal.

22 WCF (Hornet with .228 groove)

25/20 ss

28/30 Stevens and shortened 28/30's. 

32/30 Remington (.377 head - .309 groove)

32/35 Stevens and Maynard (.400 head - .311/.312 groove)

32 Ideal (.345 head - .323 groove)

32/40 Remington (.455 head - .309 groove)

38/50 Ballard (.422 head - .380 groove)

38/50 Remington (.455 head - .380 groove)

40/70 ss .455 head - .410 groove)

40/63 & 40/70  Ballard (.467 head - .410 groove)

Most all 45 calibers other than 45/70

I think all BP 50 calibers.

That should give you a very good selection of chambers.

Frank
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2014 at 1:54am by frnkeore »  

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uscra112
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #18 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:01am
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fredd3039 wrote on Jul 26th, 2014 at 10:29pm:
Colin Stolzer manufactures rifles without an FFL and sells them. SELLS THEM!!!! Thats right MAKES THEM AND SELLS THEM WITHOUT AN FFL!!!!! Everyone that keeps telling me this is illegal can please stop now. I know Colin personally. He sends the ATF tech branch a pre 1898 patent drawing and a cartridge spec sheet and they send him a letter that says yes you can make this and sell it or no you can't. It is that simple.


So, why did Al Story get in trouble?  

Apparently Stolzer's business is handmade muzzleloaders.     (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Does that make a difference?
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2014 at 9:02am by uscra112 »  

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fredd3039
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #19 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:10am
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Did he submit the info to ATF Tech Branch and get permission? Its hard to get in trouble when you have a permission slip form the ATF. Colin did say that the way the law was written they could change their minds at any time and tell you to stop production.
  
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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #20 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 8:49am
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I would not rely too much on the

“(2) uses rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." 

Clause to keep you out of trouble, I’ve talked with the ATF about this, their position is that if it can be found on the internet it’s considered “ordinary channels of commercial trade”. 
  

Mike Hunter
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marlinguy
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #21 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 1:27pm
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Mike_Hunter wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 8:49am:
I would not rely too much on the

“(2) uses rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." 

Clause to keep you out of trouble, I’ve talked with the ATF about this, their position is that if it can be found on the internet it’s considered “ordinary channels of commercial trade”. 


There's the rub. If it can be found. And with some custom reloaders making up cartridges for obsolete chambering's, the group of cartridges considered truly obsolete can change often. Still, if the caliber is obsolete at the time it's built, and sold, it would seem no laws would be broken. Just unfortunate that one week it might be OK, and the next it might not.
  

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fredd3039
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #22 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 6:41am
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The NFA rules and the ATF in general are loaded with ambiguity.  While law drafters usually try to avoid ambiguity, weaker parties to an agreement may have an interest in inserting ambiguous provisions, while those with a stronger position or more to gain will push for precision. The ATF and the NFA being the weaker party of course.
  
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fredd3039
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #23 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 6:47am
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By the way. Colins blog is one of the best sources of information you can find on building specialty weapons. Check it out and you will see what I mean. Also, for those of you who do not know this already. I own a publishing company and we recently started a Firearms and knifemaking imprint called Smokewagon Press. We are hopefully going to be producing the new edition of Colins book on Muzzleloader design and fabrication techniques so please stay tuned. One more thing. If you are an author or have an idea for a do it yourself guide about any firearm or knife related subject please send me a message. I have an open call for authors right now and I would love to see what you have in mind. All submissions are welcome. Our Website is smokewagonpres.com but it is brand new and still under construction.
Frank
  
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uscra112
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #24 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 7:35am
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Ah, now I get it.  Guerrilla marketing.
  

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fredd3039
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #25 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 8:32am
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That is not what this is about. Stolzer does this for a living. Legally. Yet some people insist that even though they have no idea who he is or his body of work, they think they know better than he does. Thats the thing about these forums. Everyone is an expert. If you hear something you don't agree with just get on there unanimously and tell everyone that they are wrong and you are right. I listed his site to o people could go see for themselves. I posted the book because some people on a single shot rifle forum might actually want to know how to build a single shot rifle from someone who makes his living doing it every day!!!!!!!!!!
It never ceases to amaze me how everything can get hijacked and turned into some sort of conspiracy. This started out as me asking about obsolete bullets and here we are... Guerrilla marketing!
Yep you caught me. I engineered this entire fiasco so that I could market a book we don't even have the rights to yet. 
If you were just fooling around I apologize. If you were serious then lets take a vote right now. 
If a publisher were printing new books on firearms design and fabrication techniques would you like to know about it or would you like that information to remain off of the forum?
  
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ireload2
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #26 - Aug 2nd, 2014 at 7:24pm
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Did he?
Have you seen the documents?
Do you have copies you can post?

fredd3039 wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:10am:
Did he submit the info to ATF Tech Branch and get permission? Its hard to get in trouble when you have a permission slip form the ATF. Colin did say that the way the law was written they could change their minds at any time and tell you to stop production.

  
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Frankford
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #27 - Aug 13th, 2014 at 8:18pm
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OMG, Were talking about obsolete single shot rifles, right ?
Not exactly crime guns.

Someone mentioned Steve Earle, Is Steve Earle the guy that wrote & sang  "Copperhead Road" ?  Sorta fitting.

  
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pjogrinc
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #28 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 2:38am
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Here is a Frank Wesson cartridge/chamber you missed, the mythical 41 Wesson;

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Ya, that's mine!!!!!!  Smiley
  
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Re: Ammo no longer in production
Reply #29 - Jun 23rd, 2015 at 2:40am
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OH! And here she is, a #1 Mid Range!!  Grin

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