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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 6mm High Walls? (Read 8522 times)
.22-5-40
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6mm High Walls?
Jun 19th, 2014 at 1:43am
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I was wondering if any of you have came across the Winchester High-Wall chambered in the .236 (6mm) Lee-Navy.  Also, I understand a few Obendorf Mauser sporters were made up in this cal.
  
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waterman
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #1 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 3:20am
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Back in 2007, I was chasing a Winchester Lee Navy rifle.  I came across an internet listing of both the Lee Navy and a High Wall in 6mm Lee Navy that were listed by the seller as "used by Winchester for ammunition testing".  The seller said the bores in both rifles were "very dark".  Seller was asking $4,000 for each.  

Beyond my financial capability, so I quit looking.

There may well have been Oberndorf Mausers made in that caliber.  DWM had a catalog listing for the cartridges.

There were also Mexican Mausers and the smokeless powder Remington Rolling Blocks made up in that caliber, but probably as after-market rebarrel jobs.  Rifles in 6 mm Lee Navy are rather rare, but they do exist.
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2014 at 3:31am by waterman »  
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Krag1902
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #2 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 9:51am
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I ran into an illustration of a High Wall in 236 Winchester a couple of weeks ago in a 1905 Outdoor Life magazine, an engraving apparently from a catalog cut. What struck me is that the SS had a forearm with a finger groove just like the factory Winchester-Lee sporting rifles. Queer. I have one of the Winchester Lee sporters.
  I could take a picture of it if someone would volunteer to post it. The issue is out on loan right now and I might not get it returned for a couple of weeks.
  On a related topic, I saw two original (?) 1895 Winchesters chambered 236 Navy at a South Dakota gun show in February.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #3 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 5:43pm
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I have a High Wall that was customized to 6 mm Womack.

6 mm Womack is a .30-40 Krag necked down to 6 mm.

It has sharp shoulders like a Weatherby case, and never had many firings before they would split.
I rechambered it to 6 mm Remington.
  
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waterman
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #4 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 7:06pm
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6 mm Remington (rimless)?
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #5 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 10:10pm
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Yup Rimless. I moved the Womack barrel over to  a Mauser 98 and converted the High Wall to .25 RKS with a new Ron Smith barrel.

I have a set of 6 mm Womack dies if anyone needs them.
  
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moodyholler
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2014 at 4:06pm
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I have a 44 1/2 in 6mm/30-30 AI uses 243 dies to load. Neat little rifle and caliber. Mh
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #7 - Jun 23rd, 2014 at 6:48pm
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Jerry Simmons had a lovely lovely little High Wall elegantly factory stocked in rosewood and factory chambered in one of the 6.5 Mannlicher cartridges----possibly the Dutch version if my memory is correct. 
The back story was that it was a factory custom sporting rifle made for a member of the family that had the London Win. distribution franchise.
I photographed it and have the images somewhere.   As I recall it had all the London marks. To me irt was an "Audry Hepburn" of a rifle.  Classy beyond classification.  Sadly it was also astronomically out of my price range when I asked him about it.   I wonder how it faired in his estate.
  

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.22-5-40
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #8 - Jun 23rd, 2014 at 11:20pm
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Thanks for most interesting replys!  Are any of you shooting cast in your 6mm?  I have a Winchester-Lee sporter checkered stock in English walnut.  This rifle acording to..the Winchester Bolt Action Rifles book is one of 3.  I have obtained factory letter from Cody museum.  I am using the Ideal 245495 cast fairly soft over 10gr. TrailBoss.  This is a nice mild load that shoots to the open buckhorn rear-German silver front sights at 50yds. and groups around 3/4"  I did try it out to 100yds getting 1 1/4" groups.  I can only wonder at the funny looks and disparaging comments if some eastern dude showed up at an old time western hunting camp around the turn of century with a tiny 6mm.  Thanks again!
  
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waterman
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #9 - Jun 24th, 2014 at 3:20am
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The Winchester-Lee barrels all had a very fast twist, 7" IIRC.  I played with one of the Lee Sporters for a bit.  It had conventional Winchester-type rifling.  I have read that the first production run of the Winchester Lee Navy Muskets had Metford rifling, but again with a quick twist.  Never seen one up close, so cannot verify.  I pursued a Lee Navy, thinking to try both modern jacketed bullets and modern cast bullets.  Prices for the Lee kept going up.  Then there was a story making the rounds about a guy who was killed when the striker blew out of the bolt.  I listened to enough stories to think there was some truth to the tale. End of search.

In any event, my adventures with cast bullets and quick twists have not been positive.  I have a 6.5 mm Dutch Mannlicher carbine with about an 8" twist.  It shoots pretty well with RN jacketed bullets.  Bullets cast out of Linotype or HS Babbitt at about 1600 fps will produce smaller-than-pie plate groups at 100 yards. Softer bullets lead like crazy.
  
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.22-5-40
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #10 - Jun 24th, 2014 at 7:43pm
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Yes, mine has fast 1in 7 1/2" twist.  Dealer reduced price since he thought bore worn due to rounded lands..turns out this is Metford rifling.  This one must not have been shot alot as bore is very shiny and leade is unworn.  This one was a real hair-puller to get ammunition to work...chamber leade is .0005 UNDER groove dia. and long!  Finally had to size 1st. band .001" under bore dia. & rest of bullet to exact groove dia.  The annealed gas-checks do spring back .001" so provide bore seal.
« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2014 at 7:51pm by .22-5-40 »  
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Krag1902
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2025 at 11:25am
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I blundered into a reference to 6 m/m Lee Highwalls in a old May 1, 1920 number of Arms And The Man.  Someone should see if there is an online file.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2025 at 1:44pm
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I have some sort of a 6mm/30-30 barrel with an Improved type shoulder on a Stevens 44 1/2. Never been able to stick a positive name on it. When I first made up some brass for it, I loaded a few with some Lyman 245496 bullets (85 grain GC) and some guesstimate loads just to hear it go bang. I had the chrono along and it seemed to like about 10 grains of old 2400 or 10 grains of SR 4759 both yielding circa 1400 fps. Then the jacketed bullets arrived and I didn't get back to the lead ones. Should do that and do some real testing.
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2025 at 9:49pm
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If someone needs some long 220 swift brass to make 6mm Lee Navy brass with I have some, it's not finished trimmed and no flash hole in it, primer pocket is formed.  It probably was a lonch box requisition.
LD1
  
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Re: 6mm High Walls?
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2025 at 10:02pm
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Longdistance1 wrote on Feb 3rd, 2025 at 9:49pm:
If someone needs some long 220 swift brass to make 6mm Lee Navy brass with I have some, it's not finished trimmed and no flash hole in it, primer pocket is formed.  It probably was a lonch box requisition.
LD1


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