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Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore (Read 6217 times)

Lead Ex Member	Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:03pm	Print Post
	Have a new, 8-groove barrel attached to an old RB #1 action. The bore diameter is .453, and the groove diameter is .461. Am using a 1:20 alloy bullet sized at .459. Am getting slivers of lead on the cleaning patch, and accuracy is about 3" at 100 yards. With the same bullet in my Trapdoor, am getting 2" groups. Am thinking I might need a softer bullet, say 1:30, so it will expand into the oversized grooves. However, am concerned that the softer bullet will deform as it enters the case during seating. Then upon firing, will it re-expand to normal, and then expand even further to obdurate into the grooves?


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FITZ Oldtimer Offline REGARDS Posts: 917 Location: MASSACHUSETTS Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #1 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:15pm	Print Post
	Those Bore & Groove dimensions are typical of original Sharps Barrels. I have been able to shoot .458 diameter bullets in Sharps rifles with alloy 25/1 and 30/1 . Actually shot my first sharps with 50/50 pure lead and Linotype. Shot very accurately but needed a stiff load, 28 Gr 4759. Only took me about 5 years to learn of the Bore and groove conditions. Once I went to softer alloys it became a pussycat and would shoot just about anything well. Later when I found a procedure to Bore cases I bored some brass to accept a .460 diameter bullet and rebored the base band of one of my Molds to cast .460 at the base and then things got really nice. HTH Regards FITZ.

	FITZ
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1733 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #2 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 4:11pm	Print Post
	or you just use black powder, it will do just that - with just about any bullet.


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Lead Ex Member	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #3 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:33pm	Print Post
	Martin, I am using black powder, and am getting slivers of lead on the cleaning patches; not speckles, slivers. So that's why I'm concerned-don't want to lead the bore. I'm still wondering if the softer bullet will expand into the grooves after being squeezed by the case during seating.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #4 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 9:04pm	Print Post
	I am sort of lost, if the bullet is to small as you have noted why not get the correct size bullet? It seems as though you might be chasing your tail.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Lead Ex Member	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #5 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:37pm	Print Post
	J Louis, I don't cast my own bullets. I buy them from Chey, and they only cast to .459", like most commercial casters.


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Dr Tom Ex Member	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #6 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 12:01am	Print Post
	I've seen slivers in a new barrel with correctly sized bullets. Rare occurrence. I think it was during the Contender craze. The problem disappeared after a while.


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1733 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #7 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:52am	Print Post
	If you're using black, there seems to be another issue. I've been using .458 bullets in a .461 bore without any issues, and that was 20:1 alloy... A 45-70, BTW. Do you size your cases?


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #8 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:22am	Print Post
	Thank you for the clarification. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #9 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 9:17am	Print Post
	I think the basic problem isn’t the bullet, although I am not a fan of store-bought bullets. The problem is twofold and it’s all about lube. It’s a brand new barrel, Have you seasoned it? If not run a patch with lanolin on it down the bore before you shoot anything and after you clean. That’s a start. It also sounds to me like your lube has let you down. You don’t mention what you are using, but most commercial lubes that the guys who crank out bullets use, is for smokeless. You need something that will keep your fouling soft otherwise you will see poor performance. 40 Rod


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2577 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #10 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:59pm	Print Post
	If those bullets have a hard wax lube you can remove them by boiling the bullets in a pot. It'll take a while, but the lube will float to the top and harden when the water cools. Then you can pan lube them with SPG. Softer alloy definitely won't hurt, although black powder will bump up 20:1 quite well. Edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I meant to boil them in a pot of water. I forgot to mention the water Chris.


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Lead Ex Member	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #11 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 8:35pm	Print Post
	Thank you all for your valued responses. I hope this is getting to everybody. Previous research indicates that I should be using a bullet that is .001" larger than the groove diameter. Since my bullets are .459", and the groove diameter is .461", I am at a deficit by .003", thus my possibly imagined need for a soft 30:1 bullet, rather than the 20:1 I am currently using, to fill up that space. I'll let you know what happens once the bullets are delivered and I get out to the range. Thanks again!


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2577 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #12 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 12:22am	Print Post
	I think that for best accuracy, your original plan for a larger diameter bullet is still the best way to go assuming you get into casting. But under groove diameter bullets will definitely bump up. Chris.


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w44wcf Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Location: Erie, PA Joined: Apr 24^th, 2008	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #13 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 11:43pm	Print Post
	Lead, I think if you used a .06" thick poly disc under the bullet your troubles will likely be solved. W44wcf

	aka Jack Christian "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13&&aka w30wcf&&aka John Kort&&NRA Life Member&&.22 W.C.F. , .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. cartridge historian
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ireload2 Full Member Offline Posts: 169 Joined: Jul 9^th, 2009	Re: Poor Accuracy and Leading in an Oversized Bore Reply #14 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:20pm	Print Post
	Ask Chey what their bullets cast to. If they are larger just buy them unsized and unlubed. Sagebrush and a few others offer bullets both sized and unsized as normal business. Quote: J Louis, I don't cast my own bullets. I buy them from Chey, and they only cast to .459", like most commercial casters.


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