He Gent`s,

i was loading Black since a lot of years  in my Frontstuffer and BPC`s. A question what appears time after time is do i need more ( additional) compression on my powder if i load with a drop tube? Natural Compression is given. 
I have read some Books from Paul Matthews and Mike Venturino  and have done some practical trials  but could not found a successful answer for myselfe. The literature tells about original Sharpscartridges that discharged discover  a free flow of undamaged Powderkernerls  but opposide to this some discharged Goverment Loads of 45-70 have had a solid mass of Powder inside.
Some Basic Infos from my Loads:
45-70 Win. Brass / Bullet :  Postel 457132 / Gov. 457125
Lube: Emmerts
Powder : KIK / Goex / Wano  
Fg/ FFg/ FFFg
Primer : LP / LPM
Loadlevel from 60 up to 70 grs

Range : 100 m  

I have got no exessive fouling with less Powder 
Fouling depends only by the Brand of Powder i use
I have found that a load of 63- 65 grs are more accurate as higher loads. ( on 100 m)<<<<<<
Mike V. tested  in his Book`s  a Basicload with 60grs and   good success.
What is your experience?

thx for you input 

Klaus   

Sorry for my humble English

Klaus I think that much that is written on the Internet regarding compression of black powder is not necessarily fact.  I've read, for instance, that you should never compress Swiss yet I've had excellent results compressing Swiss powder .   

Most of the time, with Goex powders, I end up compressing around 0.2" to 0.25".  However I think you need to experiment and see what work for you.  I have shot good groups at 200 with minimal compression, but worry that with the lower velocity that the loads will suffer from excessive vertical dispersion at longer ranges.   

Chris.

My experience is the same as CHRIS's. I've also learned not to waste any time weighing the charges either. My last session produced SD of 2. Swiss 1 1/2 dumped through my powder measure and compressed. The same load weighed had a SD of 3.5. I'm sure it could go the other way the next time I tried it but for now simply dumped and compressed is plenty good enough.

That story will never end, because almost every barrel, bullet, & chamber combination is unique.

Start with a given bullet, case length, and primer.  Then load the BP of choice with minimal compression and continue to add power [2 gr. increments] until a group forms.  Some folks call this a ladder test.
Once you find a reasonably accurate load then start 'tweaking it with more or less powder, or different primer etc...

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

Hello, Klaus.

I too struggled with the compression issue for many years. Every time I went to the range or a match I carried a different load. Never did come to a solid conclusion in regards to compression. 

Threw my hands in the air and went back to basics. Stopped sizing my brass unless it needs it to fit the chamber. Dump my load of BP in the case and drop a bullet on it. Shoots and scores just as good as all the fancy loads I used to dream up.  I get best accuracy with tapered bullets that fit the fired case mouth closely. 

Sometimes I use a wad on the powder to keep it in the case when traveling. Once there I drop the bullets on the wad and I'm ready to go.

At this time I'm getting best accuracy at 200 with the Paul Mathews tapered .45 - 500 in my 45-90. 

      Joe. 

MikeT wrote on May 31^st, 2014 at 10:06pm:

+1. Whatever works.

Seanmp - what cartridge, bullet and granulation of powder?

Interesting results. Especially with a 45-70. What's your load for BS'g that bullet? Assume you are using a wad of some sort.

I'm loading 56gr of 1 1/2F Swiss in fixed ammo with a 325gr BACo Money bullet in my 38-56 (45-70 necked down to 38cal) and have to put in 3x0.060" wads to get any compression at all with the bullet out far enough or the first band to just engage the rifling. But, it shoots quite well and generally scores in the high-90s at 200yd & 300yd when I do my part.