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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely (Read 10611 times)
Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #15 - May 24th, 2014 at 8:38pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on May 24th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

If you are going to shorten .38 shells anyway for this application, the .357 Magnum shells would have heavier webs at the bottom and might last longer.


Thanks, went to the range today, looking for some 357 magnum I could pick up.  Found lots of nickel.  May use those first just to dial in my machining method, before I use good brass.

Thanks again, I'm learning.
Navy
  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #16 - May 31st, 2014 at 12:01am
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If I understand right, if reloading cartridges with black powder or substitutes, I should reload the case fairly full, and have about .1 inch compression.  Is that correct?

Should I start with that load, or should I start with maybe 70% of that load, and add Cream of Wheat on top of that, to make the .1 inch compression?  And then slowly increase the amount of black powder, until the groups converge, and then begin to diverge.

Does this sound right?  I've heard about 'ringing' a barrel, and would prefer not to do that.  And I've heard that space between the bullet and powder is the typical condition when that happens.

Thanks for the advice,
Navy
  
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MikeT
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #17 - May 31st, 2014 at 9:50pm
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Fill the case with black power up to the base of the bullet.  Do not use fillers.  If the case capacity is too great, use Fg powder.

The compression required for an accurate load is strictly a unique process involving your rifle, a specific bullet, a brand of powder, and specific primer combination.  There are no hard and fast rules for powder compression.

You will never have a problem with a rung barrel if you fill the case with black powder.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #18 - Jun 2nd, 2014 at 12:29am
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Thanks, hadn't thought about the option of using Fg powder, if the case capacity was too great.  

For triple 7, for a 38 special, they recommend 15 to 20 grains of FFg, and achieve up to 931 fps with 20 grains powder and a 120 grain bullet.  I'll initially be using the Dixie '38 Long' cases with a 79 grain ball. 

From what is said above, I guess I can start with 15 (or less) of FFg, fill the rest with Fg, chronograph, and work my way up to the most accurate load.  But I like the idea of using Fg, rather than COW or something.

Thanks,
Navy

(1 week or so until the gun is ready.  I'm getting SO impatient.)
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2014 at 12:34am by Navy Shooter »  
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Chev. William
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #19 - Jun 23rd, 2014 at 2:42pm
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I found some Grade 1 PTL blanks on Amazon.com and have bought a few boxes to experiment with.
I opened f and measured the powder charge in them at 1.31 grains of a medium gray 'flake' propellant.

I went back on Amazon this morning and found there are still 4 boxes offered as shown by the Qoute below:
"
.22 Caliber Gray Level 1 Powder Load, 100/pk
by Simpson Strong-Tie
1 customer review
Price:      $7.34 & FREE Shipping on orders over $35. Details
Only 4 left in stock.
Sold by Bellcan Corp and Fulfilled by Amazon. Gift-wrap available. "

These are 'star crimped' so might fit your ".38 use" better than the Grade 2 PTL blanks as a primer and included 'booster' charge for igniting a black powder main charge.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #20 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 3:34pm
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Hi Chev,
Still haven't got my rifle back from the gunsmith.  Ever have any luck with the #1 power loads?
  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #21 - Aug 15th, 2014 at 10:19pm
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Got my rifle back from the gun smith today.  Long story, but he had some problems getting the job done, however he did an excellent job, the price wasn't bad, and the gun looks really nice.

He fixed the hammer, and then used the Dixie cases with the green (#2) power loads.  No powder or bullets, just wanted to make sure the hammer would work.  

As some have mentioned, the Dixie cases have very thin bases.  He initially had them hitting too high, and then as he modified the hammer, the striking point on the .22 rimfire was lowered, until it hit where he wanted it to.  

While he was getting the hammer position right, some of the cases were damaged.  If the gun shoots well, I'll be ordering some cases that hopefully have thicker bases.  If those don't pan out, I'll make my own, as some have suggested here.

  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #22 - Aug 16th, 2014 at 7:36pm
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Went to the range today, the Wesson performed well.  Was only able to get a few shots out of each Dixie Gunworks case before they were destroyed.  I'll be ordering new cases from another source, who I believe is a member of this forum.

The casing below was shot about 4 times, before it got to be in the shape it is in.  It was very difficult to get the .22 'primer' out, and the shell did not want to go all the way into the rifle, after the first time it was fired. 
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2014 at 2:02am by Navy Shooter »  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #23 - Aug 16th, 2014 at 7:53pm
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The target below was shot at 50 yards, with open sights, a bean bag under the front of the barrel.  The first part of the bore is a little rough, but the last half is very shiny.  As others recommended, I simply filled the case completely full.  Put the ball in separately, then the full case.

The gun opens like a break-action shotgun.  For the first 2 shots, I found myself pulling on the trigger that opens the rifle, rather than on the trigger that releases the hammer.  Wonder if that ever happened during battle.

Anyway, it's a pleasure to now have shot a single shot rifle.  I can see why it might become addicting.
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2014 at 2:00am by Navy Shooter »  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #24 - Aug 17th, 2014 at 9:08pm
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My Dixie cases never got the little crinkle in the body that prevented them from chambering like you have.  I had a lengthways gouge in my chamber, but was able to iron it back smooth by making a drift of the proper size. Is your chamber oversized or the rim seat too deep?

In my rifle, the rims tore off next to the .22 shell seat to form a thin brass wire hanging off the rim, which broke away with subsequent handling.  I was still able to tap the .22  priming shells out of the Dixie cases, but there being little support for the next priming shell, I was afraid of burst rims.  There was enough blowback from the powder charges as it was.

I think the adaptor cases were originally envisioned for rimfire revolvers like the Remington Smoot, where the whole works would be held well away from the face.  Most of these problems would be less of an issue.

That is a promising target though.  Once you get those old rimfires shooting, they can surprise you.
  
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Navy Shooter
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Re: Newbie needs help in developing loads... safely
Reply #25 - Aug 23rd, 2014 at 11:24pm
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BR, thanks for your response.  I'll have to take a better look at the rifle.

I don't think the chamber is oversize, the cartridge just barely slides into the chamber.  I think what's happening is that the firing pin is hitting the rim of the blank pretty hard, and the base beneath the rim is thin, and the cylindrical wall is only about .014 inch.  So the force of the firing pin is wrinkling the wall.  Could be wrong, but there isn't much material there at all.

Just got some .38 special cases in today.  I cut them .1 inch longer than the Dixie cases.  The Dixie cases are about .38 short rimfire, my rifle is chambered for .38 long.  But the .38 special cases have a thicker base by about .1 inch, so the case will still have the same amount of powder.

Other than that, the case I made is similar to the Dixie case, just a thicker base.  

Spent most of today shortening the cases, only drilled 2 of them out, and only tried to set off one blank.  It fired, but I'll be moving the blank still further towards the edge.  The firing pin barely caught the edge of the blank.

The Dixie cases actually wrinkled some even when only firing the blank, so the new cases already are performing better.  Hope that continues to be true when the hole moves towards the edge.

Thanks again for all the advice I've received.
  
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