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argie1891
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lead and more lead in barrel
May 1st, 2014 at 12:23am
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shot my new cpa 32-40 today it didn't shoot bad but when I started to clean it I found more lead than I have ever seen in a rifle barrel. I used an alloy of 30 to 1 using lead of known purity and weighed it and the tin. I lubed the bottom 2 lube grooves loaded with 13.5 gr. of 4227. for lube I used some gray 24 I had left. the rifle didn't shoot bad even with the lead, but not as well as when I started. I am thinking I may not have enough pressure to expand the bullet enough to fill the bore I really don't know if another grain or so of powder would work better. I don't want to use a harder bullet as it would be harder to breach seat. 
I could shoot some jacketed bullets to smooth the barrel or even lap it but that is the last resort. I am open to ideas. argie1891
  

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frnkeore
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #1 - May 1st, 2014 at 2:09am
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It sounds like the base band (if tapered) or all the bands if cylindrical is to small. You won't be able to "bump" it up with smokeless, it will just get worse.

I don't know what Gray 24 is but, get some Javilina Schuetzen, some of SchuetzenDaves Canadian lube, NRA 50/50 or make some Emerett lube, that may also help the leading.

If it's BSed to far in, it can also gas cut and lead.

Frank
  

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harry_eales
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #2 - May 1st, 2014 at 2:40am
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A 30:1 lead/tin alloy seems a bit too soft for me. I would suggest you go for a 20:1 lead/tin alloy. Frank is correct about bump up using Black Powder  and using a 30:1 alloy you are very likely to get bullet slump as well. Whatever you do, just change one thing at a time, in that way you will find out what has worked and what hasn't. Have fun.

Harry
  
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argie1891
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #3 - May 1st, 2014 at 3:54am
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I should have mentioned the bullet is the hoch 322-200
  

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creedmoormatch
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #4 - May 1st, 2014 at 6:13am
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  Argie --- You probably bought the bullet mould from CPA, but the diameters do vary.

The day I picked my rifle up, Paul took the time away from other things to slug the barrel with a soft lead projectile and we measured the diameter before it went out the door.  Because the Hoch mould was not what it needed to be, an exchange was made so that the cast bullet conformed to the slug dimension/s.

I am assuming that your barrel received a tapered throat for Breech Seating bullets, as are most CPA target rifles, but I would go back to square one and make a chamber cast to quantify what your have and then go from there.

C.M.M.
  
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KAF
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #5 - May 1st, 2014 at 7:44am
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If the bullet is big enough to fit the groove dia, it might be carbon from the burning powder, it looks just like a string of lead until you use your thumb nail and it cuts easily in half and will break apart.
Never hurts to make sure before changing to much.

Been there done that.
  
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JLouis
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #6 - May 1st, 2014 at 8:25am
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The groove diameter should be noted on the bottom of the barrel and that bullet should be the right fit. 20-1 is a better choice and I am not sure the Gray 24 all though a good lube for gas check bullets over 2000fps is a good choice for your use. It was the lube of choice for the CBA Heavy guns out my way but I never saw it being used for our use. Javelina Schuetzen Lube would indeed be a better choice. As KAF said keep an eye on the carbon and clean often to stay on top of the carbon fouling. I clean after about shots. If you have unburnt powder left in the barrel it too can lead to leading and a hotter primer might be in order. Don't shy away from any of the magnums I have had good success with their use.

JLouis
  

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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #7 - May 1st, 2014 at 8:57am
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Argie1891

First off I’m going to make some assumptions. I am assuming that you are breech seating using the plugged case Paul provides. Take one of your bullets and breech seat it. Now hold the barrel up to a strong light and look at the chamber if you see any light the bullet is too small. Now tap out the bullet and look at it you should see all the lands and where they stop, you should also be able to see a faint ring where the bullet is sealing the chamber near the base. If you don’t have both your base band is too small. Get a bullet with a .323” base band.
  The second thing I noticed is that you are only using the bottom two lube grooves. Use them all that’s what they are there for. At some point you’ll get froggy and make your own lube but for right now get your self either some Javalina Schutezenlube of some SPG they are both good reliable lubes. 
  Your load is a little light your groups should tighten up somewhere between 14.3 grains and 14.6 grains. Do Not put jacketed bullets down your bore. There is a strong probability that you will do more harm than good.  Before you do anything to the barrel talk to Paul or Gail they may have suggestions. As a last resort fire lapping with 400 to 600 grit lapping compound can be done. 10 t0 twelve bullets should do it and clean in between each shot. 

40 Rod
  
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gunlaker
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #8 - May 1st, 2014 at 9:17am
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Definitely check the bullet fit.  The Hoch 32 cal mould that came wit mine was way oversized, CPA sent me a replacement but it was undersized.  Fortunately it fits one of my other rifles extremely well.   I use a Saeco mould for my CPA now.

Chris.
  
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ledball
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #9 - May 1st, 2014 at 9:44am
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Be sure, as KAF says, that it's really lead and not carbon.  Ledball
  
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marlinguy
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #10 - May 1st, 2014 at 10:04am
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Sounds more like the bullet may be undersized for the bore. I see no reason a bullet needs to bump up to fill the bore if it's sized to fit the bore to begin with. I'd be measuring the bullet and slugging the bore to see how they match up.
  

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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #11 - May 1st, 2014 at 8:38pm
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Have you looked at this web site? Almost everything you need to know.  WELL ALOT OF GOOD INFO.
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A. J. Palik
  
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argie1891
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2014 at 9:00pm
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I have there is even a mention of my name in there on the way I lube some bullets; I have a copy of his book on my book shelf. a lot of information for the buck. I have been shooting cast bullets for many years.  the lead came out with a few pushes of a patch through the bore. it looked more like the lose lead that you get with a 22 long rifle. I cant wait for the next trip to the range. hope it is tomorrow.
  

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Sendaro
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Re: lead and more lead in barrel
Reply #13 - May 2nd, 2014 at 7:22am
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argie1891,

    A few mionths ago I had a new barrel made for my Stevens 44 1/2 by CPA. It's chambered in 32-40 and I bought a HOCH bullet mold as well. Have had no leading problems at all. Even when I was shooting some bullets cast of scrapalloy to rough in the 16X Unertl scope. I lube with JSL and have shot 13.5 to 14.5 grains of IMR4227. The barrel that Paul and Gail made for me was crafted from a Douglas XX with in .318 x 1turn in 15" twist. My HOCH bullets drop out of the mold at 322. and again there is no problem. Have had 5 shot gropus at 100 yards run as small as .549" and 10 shot groups at 200 yards under 2". One 200 yard group of 5 shots measure .632". This was all with less that 100 shots through the barrel.   
 
Sounds to me like you should slug your bore and go from there. Have you asked Paul or Gail for assistance? They are very nice people and I'm sure they will assist you.

                                 Sendaro
  
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