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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage (Read 25687 times)
SSShooter
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.22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Apr 26th, 2014 at 10:34am
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Was a short article in one of the latest Shotgun News editions that addressed the shortage of .22 rimfire ammo. The article quotes ammo mfgrs and states that the shortage is due almost entirely to hoarders. Also states that the margins are so thin on rimfire ammo, which is more difficult to make than centerfire, that no maker of rimfire ammo has increased their mfr'g capacity. They may run 24-7, but have not added any machines to increase capacity. Knew about the hoarders, but did not know about the lack of margins and no added capacity.
  

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slumlord44
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 12:28am
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I sort of find that hard to believe, especially considering that retail prices have gone up considerably in the last year or so. It is not just hoarders. A lot of new gun owners are out there buying ammo or trying to. Existing owners see a need to "stock up" because of current and past shortages of reasonable ammo on retail shelves. It is complicated and I do not see an end to it for some time. Prices will also continue to rise along with the price of everything else that we buy.
  
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harry_eales
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 3:35am
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Some time ago I watched a couple of video's on YouTube made by the CCI ammunition manufacturers. When these video's were made some five years ago CCI was turning out 4 million rounds per day. Yes, 4,000,000 a day. Presumably their capacity hasn't been reduced since then. This is only one US Manufacturer there are a number of others also producing .22RF ammo. I've just tried accessing these video's, but they show up as 'Not Available.' No explanation was given.

Assuming that CCI works a five day week and they shut down for a couple of weeks for holidays their production for a year is still 4,000,000 x 5 x 50. This comes to some one billion rounds per year from one 
US manufacturer alone, not counting the other makers. Then there are the imported rounds from Britain, Russia, Finland, Italy and elsewhere which again must amount to several hundred million a year as a minimum estimate.

Now I realise that since Obama took the office of President there has been a rush on firearm sales and a great many of these are .22RF. Also the rise in interest of .22 versions of 'assault rifles' with large capacity magazines the owners of which seem to enjoy blasting away for the sheer hell of it with no apparent interest in accuracy, these are a cause of the rapid drain of the availability of .22 RF ammo.

From some of the vast number of video's on YouTube some of these guys are or appear to be shooting a brick of .22 ammo a day at the range. Even the hoarders of ammo have video's on their techniques of obtaining ammo at the expense of others who may just want a box of 50 or 100 rounds.

It appears to me that the only way to stop bulk purchasing by hoarders and others is to limit sales to each individual of one box per calibre, per visit, per day. That way everyone gets a chance of at least some ammunition. The companies selling the ammo to the public are not going to loose out, they can still sell all the ammo they can get their hands on.

Harry
  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #3 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 5:43am
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"It appears to me that the only way to stop bulk purchasing by hoarders and others is to limit sales to each individual of one box per calibre, per visit, per day. That way everyone gets a chance of at least some ammunition. The companies selling the ammo to the public are not going to loose out, they can still sell all the ammo they can get their hands on"

For anyone shooting competitively, this just makes no sense at all. I can't find anything even close to useable for match shooting at any local gunshop. I have to buy ammo mail-order/on-line, which means buying bulk quantities to keep shipping costs under control. Buying several boxes or even a brick at a time gets very expensive when the UPS charge is over $15 for each order. I have a friend who has been buying ammo one brick at a time and has finally decided to buy a case. He figured out that buying one brick at a time will cost him $170 in shipping charges. Also, some sellers will also give a price break on case purchases. Buying by the case is a pain in the wallet, but cheaper in the long run.
  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 9:20am
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Our local MN paper has an article in it this morning that says that the Pittman-Robertson act had raised $813 million dollars last year.  For those that don't know what the P-R act is, it's a 10% tax on ammo and firearms to be used for education and wildlife.  That was double the amount of just 2 years ago. Although the article says that ammo shortages are getting back to normal, it says nothing about the .22 shortage.  Bob
  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #5 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 9:39am
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As far as limiting purchases, the hoarders have the edge on that.  #1 comes in along with his wife, kids, uncle, grandpa, and a few cousins, each buys the limit to add to #1's hoard.  Seen it done many times at local Wally World and other stores.  Only a few hold some back for other customers.  Doesn't seem to be an easy answer to the problem.  GW
  

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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #6 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 9:42am
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So, no chance that the .25 Stevens will be revived anytime soon?
  

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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #7 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 1:03pm
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I'm a serious rimfire shooter, going through better than a case a year, and maybe two, depending on other demands on my time.  Been buying in bulk, mostly by the case, for the last 10 years, chiefly because of price breaks and shipping charges, but also because most good target ammo does not show up on retail store shelves. In most markets, there is not sufficient demand to stock it, with or without hoarders.

The ammo shortage has hit the "practice level" pretty hard and has extended into the club or lower intermediate level.  The lower grades of Wolf, Lapua & SK have all been hard to come by.  Looks to me as if the breakpoint for availability has been $12 a box, at least for target ammo.  If you are willing to pay $1200 a case, for stuff that was always in that price range, there has never been much of a shortage of any of the Eley or Lapua types, nor has there been much in the way of price increases.  The US companies gave up on that market years ago.

Harry, if I were a CCI poobah, given US politics, lawsuits & general criminal activity, I would take whatever steps I could to remove the video from the net.  They are already selling everything they produce. The video will not increase sales & may cause problems. 

Not all those who shoot the AR rimfires are just blasters.  We allow newcomers to shoot any 22 RF in our Tuesday league. Not everyone has a traditional single shot & we want to encourage new shooters. Some young people do very well on the 25-ring target with their AR rimfires, at least at 50 feet or 25 yards. Never seen a serious trial at 100 yards.  Don't think the sights will adjust for 200 yards.

.25 Stevens?  Probably will never be made again, unless in Brazil, maybe by the same outfit that made .32 RF years back.  Too many old Stevens of dubious strength still around for a US maker to take that risk.  Someone could sell primed cases, but is there a market?

All the new product development seems to be in .17s.


  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #8 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 2:40pm
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I'm sorry, I just don't buy it, I especially don't buy the low margin stuff. If there where low margins, after the first stortage, 22rf wouldn't have come, almost back down to pre-Obama after he was elected the first time. If there where low margins, there would have been many storatages over the last 50 years, at least! American companys don't do things for charity or because they are just "good guy" companys!!!!! How many items have we seen go out of business because of low profit? Today, profit is the ONLY thing that companys want!

Also, I find it hard to believe that the US can completely absorb the total output of CCI, Federal, Remington and Winchester plus, at least another 4 foreign country manufactors.

And, please tell me why you can buy all the shotgun shells you want? All the shotgun guy's I ever knew when through a lot of those, why have you been able to buy shotgun primers through all this and why shotgun primers haven't gone up. Shotgun primers have stayed nearly the same and rifle/pistol primers have gone up to the price of shotgun primers.

Frank
  

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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #9 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 3:45pm
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I believe that one of the reasons shotgun primers have not gone up is that since the price of shot went over
$40.00 a bag and powder went up for the last couple of years you could buy shotshells on sale almost for
the price of reloading.  Where I worked at there were 5 people shooting sporting clays and nobody has 
reloaded for the last 2 or 3 years.  They wait and buy 4 or 5 flats of shells when they go on sale.  I do not
believe there has ever been a shortage of shotgun shells.  At least not in my part of Ohio.
    Rifle and pistol primers are now plentiful and so is powder locally.  Also seeing some .22 shells being stocked.
I believe the shortage is being resolved slowly.  Could it be some distributors are holding back supplies to keep
prices up?
  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #10 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 4:43pm
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Who do you think is paying the overtime costs to be able to run 24-7 to try to keep up with the demand? If the manfactures did not put profits first they would be long gone. When is the last time you have seen liability insurance, operating costs and employee benifits go down or for that matter remain the same for an extended period of time. They have the same problems we have trying to survive with the never ending increasing costs that make hard to survive. When is the last time you have seen the cost of brass go down the main componet for primers and brass. We live in the present not in the past and life will indeed get more expensive as time goes by and there isn't no stopping it or we would have leveled off a long time ago.
  

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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #11 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 4:46pm
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I think it is mainly hoarders.  Think about this...if 20 people in each of our 50 states all bought just one brick of ammo it works out to 500,000 rounds.  Now, I think that I personally know at least 20 people who will buy a brick any chance they get in this market so it doesn't take long for a few million rounds to disappear!

  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #12 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 6:09pm
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There seems to be no shortage of either of the following materials.

A little quick math:

Copper = $3 per pound, down $.25 in the last 6 mo.
Zink = $.94 per lb

Brass = 30/70, zink/copper but, I'll do 1/3 zink, 2/3 copper for my convince.

brass = approx. $2.31 per lb

7000 gr in a lb 2.31/7000 = $.00033 per gr. '06 case is approx 200 gr. = $.066 per case. All the rest in a case is labor, overhead and profit. We know that labor hasn't gone up, much, if any the the last 4 years, over head may have increased a little and if material has even doubled that's only 3 cents per case or 15 cents for a bag of 50.

Now primers:

A LP primer weights about 4.7 gr = $.00155 and a 209 shotgun primer weighs 15.0 gr = $.005. From the looks of a shotgun primer, there is a lot more priming compound in them, too.

There is no way that a CF primer should be the same cost to mfg as a shotgun! As a machinst, I would have to say that the shotgun primer is more time consuming to make, also.

Less profit in the shotgun primer but, more availabilty. Approx 3 times more profit in CF primers, less availabilty. Why did shotgun primers stay on the self and CF disappear? Doesn't make since!

If a company operates OT it makes MORE money with the higher volume and the OT it pays the employees doesn't decrease it's profit with a slight increase in product price. In general, most companys don't increase price because it's EXTRA money that they wouldn't have at regular production rates. If it's long term, they put on another shift and there is no additional cost.

All four of the American cartridge companys profits should skyrocket under these circumstances. Does anyone have stock in any of them?

Frank


  

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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #13 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 7:32pm
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ATK, corporate owner of CCI & Federal donated 10,000,000 rounds of 22LR's this year to the Boy Scouts for their Summer shooting program

If one thinks that 22 rimfires are tough to find at a decent price ... I called Remington and asked the status of #11 caps because they not locatable on the vendor market.  Remington Customer Service looked up their production schedule ... " We don't have #11 caps or any percussion caps scheduled for production."
  
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Re: .22 Rimfire Ammo Shortage
Reply #14 - Apr 27th, 2014 at 7:37pm
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Quote:
ATK, corporate owner of CCI & Federal donated 10,000,000 rounds of 22LR's this year to the Boy Scouts for their Summer shooting program

If one thinks that 22 rimfires are tough to find at a decent price ... I called Remington and asked the status of #11 caps because they not locatable on the vendor market.  Remington Customer Service looked up their production schedule ... " We don't have #11 caps or any percussion caps scheduled for production."


Maybe it's time to stock up on the Flint Locks??

Terry  Undecided
  

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