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New Guy...New Rifle (Read 6430 times)

primers Junior Member Offline Posts: 56 Location: Arizona Joined: Apr 17^th, 2014	New Guy...New Rifle Apr 18^th, 2014 at 3:22pm	Print Post
	Hello All..I hope this is the proper place for this question...I have been around firearms all my life...Have reloaded smokeless for 40 plus years, Was recently trusted with Marlin/Ballard rifle in 32-40, and don't have a clue whats up....The gentelman that trusted me with his rifle is pushing ninety and don't remember so good, if I may quote him....He gave me a number of pieces of brass as well as some bullets...also some loaded 32-40 cartridges that from what I have read, I will not be using in this application. I would like to start out with I have no intentions of shooting this ol gal until I have had a smith check her out and slug the barrel to insure where I am starting at is the right spot... I have a copy of Major Ned Roberts revised edition on the Schuetzen Rifle, which is helping me sound very educated when speaking to novices about this gun....In reality I am a babe in da woods...Please bear with me in my search for answers... I am planning on breach loading, eventually casting my own bullets, but right now I am trying to accumulate the powders and brass and such to give her a run when I go out for the first time... Would you fine folks recommend strictly Black Powder or smokeless..or the duplex loads that I have read some on...Smokeless powders show IMR 4227 or 4759 starting in the 19 to 20 gr range with a 200 gr bullet.....Does that sound about right? Please forgive me for my ignorance in this matter...I gotta start somewhere....Thank you for your time....


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7616 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #1 - Apr 18^th, 2014 at 5:11pm	Print Post
	19 or 20 gr of 4227 is way TO much for a Ballard with a 200 gr bullet. 13 - 14 gr of 4227 would be more like it with fixed (bullet loaded in the case) ammo. Duplex loads of 4 gr 4227 or (preferred)4759, using pistol primers and the ballance FG BP would be fine. If you want to get into breech seating, your accuracy will be much better. Just add 1/2 to 1.0 gr of smokeless to the powder charges. In either case you need to fit the bullet to the groove diameter to start with. .001 - .002 larger than groove is the starting point. You need a softer alloy bullet. Some where in the 20 to 30/1 lead/tin range. Frank
	« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2014 at 3:13pm by frnkeore »
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John Boy Ex Member	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #2 - Apr 18^th, 2014 at 5:36pm	Print Post
	Primers - as Frank said - way too much powder. Don't know where you found that loading data but it is absolutely wrong. Look through this ASSRA Reference thread for 32-40 loading data ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) For breech seating, you will need a tapered bullet and a plugged case or a breech seater. 1/6" is the normal length of the base in the leade. The case is capped with a wad - there are many kinds that can be used. I use 1/8" hard felt. If you are going to breech seat black powder reloads - fill the case - no compression - cap it - seat it and shoot
	« Last Edit: Apr 18^th, 2014 at 5:42pm by »

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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #3 - Apr 18^th, 2014 at 6:30pm	Print Post
	Good evening "Primers" --- I'm delighted that you thought to join us here at the ASSRA discussion group. Let me congratulate you on receiving your "friend's" treasured possession. At Ninety years old, I hope they were mostly good years. What we do here is like many other pursuits in life that are worthwhile, they are a series of progressions. In other words, you learn in an orderly progression. It's like "don't put the cart before the horse." My recommendation, which I offer out of an attitude of gratitude, is to set up your appointment to visit with your chosen qualified gunsmith. Let him (or her) evaluate the plus and the minus of your rifle for it's safety qualities and shootability. Many of the rifles that we shoot today are over 100 years old, and quite frankly, not all of them are up to the task of digesting modern produced smokeless powders and should be limited strictly to the use of blackpowder, as they were originally intended to be used. Folks often time make their assumptions, not knowing fully about partcular firearm's individual ability to be safely fired, numerous times, over an extended period of time. If your gunsmith finds anything of concern for your safety, he/she will be able to identify those issues for you and perhaps with some minor corrective work, an unsafe firearm may be made safe. Best wishes to both you and your generous friend. Creedmoormatch .


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7616 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #4 - Apr 18^th, 2014 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	creedmoormatch: Quote: Folks often time make their assumptions, not knowing fully about partcular firearm's individual ability to be safely fired, numerous times, over an extended period of time. I believe primers had already address this. primers: Quote: I would like to start out with I have no intentions of shooting this ol gal until I have had a smith check her out and slug the barrel to insure where I am starting at is the right spot...

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #5 - Apr 18^th, 2014 at 10:20pm	Print Post
	One has to be careful with some of the published loads, there have been a few rifles blown up with that kind of miss-information. I am not sure my CPA could suffer through 19-20 grains of either powder! I believe there was also a load published in that same book using Unique in the 32-40 that is bomb waiting to go off. JLouis
	« Last Edit: Apr 18^th, 2014 at 10:29pm by JLouis »
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 2266 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #6 - Apr 19^th, 2014 at 12:14am	Print Post
	#1 you need to buy Randy Wright's schuetzen shooting book. #2 you need to take some pictures so we can see what your rifle looks like.


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #7 - Apr 19^th, 2014 at 2:17pm	Print Post
	Primers I know the load that you are referring to it is in Roberts book. It is the same one that Roberts gave to Claude Roderick that he wrote ruined a wonderful Pope barrel. I have always wondered why it hasn’t been corrected in later editions. Forget 4759 all together it is a good powder but it will no longer be made by the end of the year. As you are getting started why start with something that you won’t be able to get after you spend time working up a load? I would recommend that you start with 4227 somewhere between 14 and 14 ½ grains will probably get you there. Use a 165 to 185 grain bullet cast 25:1 and any standard large rifle primer. Pull the bullets from those old cases dump the old powder and pop the old primers and reuse those old cases. Unless they are badly corroded I bet they have a lot of life left in them. Lastly buy Randy Wright’s book. You can get it from the ASSRA Archives. 40 Rod


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primers Junior Member Offline Posts: 56 Location: Arizona Joined: Apr 17^th, 2014	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #8 - Apr 19^th, 2014 at 9:02pm	Print Post
	Hello all..Thank you everyone for all of the good information...First off my apologies when I stated the high gr load for the 4759 powder...In my excitement I wrote the wrong info down.... I am going to try and accumulate some IMR 4227 and if I can find it 4759 powder..again a basic question...If I do decide to run a blended load and use the smokeless at 4 to 5 gr.. I couldnt find how much Black Powder would then be a good starting load...as stated I will shop for some FG bp...just kinda could use some starting amounts... as for the info on this rifle, as follows....left side of receiver... Marlin Firearms co. New Haven CT. USA Patented February 9 1875 Ballards patent Nov 5 1861 Has a five digit serial # 215 under fore grip stamped Goodwin 32-40...which I am sure is from a re-barrel somewhere in her past... Hopefully I can post a pic....here goes (You need to Login or Register** to view media files and links) I beleive this to be a western model but could use any help in its lineage....Thanks


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7616 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #9 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 1:27pm	Print Post
	That's a very nice rifle and scope. From the address on the side, it may be a cast action and should have a reversable firing pin (rim fire to center fire). Regarding the amount of FG, black powder, if your shooting fixed, you fill the case to the bottom of the bullet at the overall length that it will chamber and touch the rifling, for a starting point. For breech seating, you load the case full, to the top and hold it in with a wad. There are many kinds of wads but, if you don't have any, you can just use a smear of bullet lube to hold the powder in the case so it doesn't spill when chambering. A note about the BP, I've only used GOEX powder, there are a number of other powders out there and the granulation may need to be different for best results when using them. Others can speak, regarding that. Frank

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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1578 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #10 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:33pm	Print Post
	Gerald Goodwin did barrel rebores and bullet mould recherrying in the early '80's to maybe the early '90's. I remember seeing his ads in Shotgun News.


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primers Junior Member Offline Posts: 56 Location: Arizona Joined: Apr 17^th, 2014	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #11 - Apr 21^st, 2014 at 4:07pm	Print Post
	frnkeore...Thank you...I will start getting my powders together..I am going to try and go to one of my local gun club black powder shoots and see if there are any breech loaders in the group..I am going to order the book mentioned and now need to start getting my powders together... Bent-ramrod.....thanks for that on the barrel...do you know if the man Mr Goodwin was good at rebarreling or do you know this... Also still wondering exactly what I got......Is this a Pacific model or is it called something else?? On the subject of lubes' it seems there are as many different opinions as pretty girls at the beach...I am going to try and mix a batch or two up from what I have read on the lube post's....Again one question....when they say beef tallow....can Crisco be used in the place of tallow?? Or is there a beef tallow sales guy around somewhere??? Thanks...


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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1578 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #12 - Apr 21^st, 2014 at 9:14pm	Print Post
	I don't know about his reboring abilities. You are in the best position to determine that. I sent him an old Lyman mould once to be recherried. What I wanted was a repro of the standard Ideal 375164 cavity. The mould came back with an acceptable cavity that cast a bullet of the right diameter, but it was nowhere near an exact copy of the 375164. There was an enclosed note from Goodwin to the effect that he would not do any more "oddball designs," which kind of mystified me. The design I wanted was a standard catalog item, although by that time it was unavailable from Lyman.


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digitall423 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 747 Location: Mexico Beach, FL Joined: Aug 5^th, 2005	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #13 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 6:48am	Print Post
	Primers, mutton tallow can be had from Dixie Gun Works Calaloo


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: New Guy...New Rifle Reply #14 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 9:25am	Print Post
	Quote: Again one question....when they say beef tallow....can Crisco be used in the place of tallow?? Primers - Crisco could be used but it has a low melting temperature and has to be supported by other compounds Quote: As of 2012, Crisco consists of a blend of soybean oil, fully hydrogenated palm oil, and partially hydrogenated palm and soybean oils Mutton tallow has a higher melting temperature and an excellent combination of hydro-carbon bonds. There was published in the 1943 American Rifleman article a lube combination that I've shot for smokeless & black powder going on over 5 years that is a 'proven lube' in hot & cold weather ... 40% Mutton Tallow 40% Paraffin 20% Beeswax (a good substitute is micro crystalline wax)


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