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Reduced charges and filler (Read 6827 times)

broken_arrow Full Member Offline Posts: 204 Location: Lancaster County Joined: Aug 12^th, 2008	Reduced charges and filler Apr 8^th, 2014 at 12:26pm	Print Post
	Hi all, Probably more stupid questions... How far can you reduce a charge in a straight case? Say 35 grains in a .45-70? How much filler is too much? Half a case, 2/3 of the case? Thanks, Dave

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rgchristensen Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1185 Joined: Jan 2^nd, 2014	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #1 - Apr 8^th, 2014 at 1:22pm	Print Post
	DAVE: How much can you reduce the charge in a .45-70? I guess as much as you feel you need to.... Object of reducing the charge is to get a lower velocity. Object of adding filler is to provide compression for uniform velocity. If the velocity is very low, you are probably not intending to be shooting far enough for velocity variation to be a problem. My 47gr loads with 405 gr bullet in the TD 45-70 shoot pretty good to 600 yd. 1130 fps and mild recoil were design criteria. CHRIS RGChristensen


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jarmann Participating Member Offline Posts: 38 Joined: Apr 7^th, 2014	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #2 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 5:55am	Print Post
	I never use a filler in my reduced loads for the bpcr's ,only a charge keeper to avoid overflash ,for straight wall cases a bier carton disk ,for bottle necks a cloud of dacron fluff (3to 5 gn )depending the case type as powder I use only magnum pistol/revolver types powders from vihtavuori or accurate 5744 45/70 22gn n110 or 15 gn n340, greetings from over the pond jarmann


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MikeT Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 295 Location: St. Cloud, MN Joined: Sep 7^th, 2005	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #3 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:56am	Print Post
	Dave, Why not add about 1/2" of lube cookie to the load to take up the space? Keep on hav'n fun! MikeT


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broken_arrow Full Member Offline Posts: 204 Location: Lancaster County Joined: Aug 12^th, 2008	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #4 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:40am	Print Post
	Hi Mike, I need to fill 1.2 inches of empty space above the powder. That's why I was asking how much filler can be used. I have a 1 1/2 rolling block that was barreled in .40-70SS at some point in its life. All indications show that this combination is unsafe to fire. So, I was trying to get the .40-70 case capacity down to .44-40 specs (which was the largest caliber that the 1 1/2 was chambered in). I'm trying to find a solution other than lining or re-barreling. If I can find a way to keep and use this set-up I can use my Lee Shaver RF adapter in it also. I'm looking at paper shooting out to 200 yards. Any ideas? Thanks, Dave MikeT wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:56am: Dave, Why not add about 1/2" of lube cookie to the load to take up the space? Keep on hav'n fun! MikeT

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #5 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:22am	Print Post
	Why not use a cork wad seated down to just off the powder. A simple 3/8’ screw with a nut and a jam nut can be used as an adjustable wad seater. It’s a straight case the wad will sit anywhere you put it. 40 Rod


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broken_arrow Full Member Offline Posts: 204 Location: Lancaster County Joined: Aug 12^th, 2008	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #6 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:28am	Print Post
	Would the 1 inch or so of space between the wad and the bullet base be OK? BTW, I am talking about blackpowder. 40_Rod wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:22am: Why not use a cork wad seated down to just off the powder. A simple 3/8’ screw with a nut and a jam nut can be used as an adjustable wad seater. It’s a straight case the wad will sit anywhere you put it. 40 Rod

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MikeT Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 295 Location: St. Cloud, MN Joined: Sep 7^th, 2005	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #7 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:09pm	Print Post
	Some things to think about: 1. Use 1 Fg powder for slower recoil [less psi] 2. Use grease cookie to reduce the case capacity 3. 1/8 cork wads will work also 4. A lighter [350 gr] bullet reduces the recoil [psi] 5. Use a bullet that seats deeper into your case. I load my 40-70SS to 40-50 Sharps specs for off-hand shooting. I shoot PP bullets of between 380-430 grains, but for OH I use 340 grain bullets. I reduce the charge of 1.5 Swiss to 50 grains, from 69-70 grs normal loading. The 3/8" extra space is taken up with a lube cookie or cookies. Keep on hav'n fun! MikeT


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7619 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #8 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:22pm	Print Post
	My solution would be to have RMC make a reduced capacity case. Have them make the neck thickness .015 (so it will seal the chamber) for about 1/2" and then you can have any size hole from there back to the primer pocket, I'd suggest 5/16. Then just fill'er up and shoot. Frank

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Chickenthief Junior Member Offline Posts: 81 Location: Here Joined: Aug 5^th, 2013	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #9 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:36pm	Print Post
	Styrofoam! Buy a sheet that is the correct thickness and cut "corks" with a sharpend case. Use it for 12 gauge all the time. If you are nervous for contact between powder flame and styrofoam then by all means add a milk carton disc. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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IOwnDoubles Full Member Offline Posts: 120 Joined: Nov 7^th, 2013	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #10 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 1:44am	Print Post
	Chicken thieve Just for the record. Want you are using is not styofoam. Styrofoam is extruded polystyrene. What you are using is expanded polystyrene, commonly called bead board Sorry I can't help if I am an engineer! Jerry


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broken_arrow Full Member Offline Posts: 204 Location: Lancaster County Joined: Aug 12^th, 2008	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #11 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:20am	Print Post
	Back to the original question... How much filler is too much? Half a case? Three quarters of a case? Thanks, Dave

	ASSRA #10186 (10-25-2021) Every Mighty Oak Was Once A Little Nut That Held Its Ground
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broken_arrow Full Member Offline Posts: 204 Location: Lancaster County Joined: Aug 12^th, 2008	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #12 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:22am	Print Post
	Frank, I talked to them and they were not real excited about the idea. And, I have 200 new unfired cases for the .40-70 that I would like to be able to use. frnkeore wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:22pm: My solution would be to have RMC make a reduced capacity case. Have them make the neck thickness .015 (so it will seal the chamber) for about 1/2" and then you can have any size hole from there back to the primer pocket, I'd suggest 5/16. Then just fill'er up and shoot. Frank

	ASSRA #10186 (10-25-2021) Every Mighty Oak Was Once A Little Nut That Held Its Ground
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kkid65 Ex Member	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #13 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 2:01pm	Print Post
	What was used for reduced 45-70 government carbine loads? I was thinking that it was a drop in cardboard cylinder that went into the brass to take up space ? LB


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kkid65 Ex Member	Re: Reduced charges and filler Reply #14 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 2:58pm	Print Post
	Have to correct myself, seems the govt used 55 grains bp in the carbine with cardboard filler but accuracy was poor. They then went to the cardboard drop in tube and had good results with 55 grains. This was with the copper cases before thicker brass ones. LB


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