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Neck tension and more (Read 5354 times)

Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Neck tension and more Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 6:41pm	Print Post
	OK JLouis you've got me going. Consistency of neck tension is a variable that is based on several things, AND there is more to it than just neck tension. First, am I not correct in my thinking that consistent neck tension requires consistent thickness of brass and consistent material condition (hardness and such)? So I'm just now sitting down to measure in 3 places each of a hundred cases - and it occurs to me that the measurements will be influenced by the amount of crud on the inside. I don't even think about that crud, now I'm digging out a stainless brush to clean out the cases! This raises the question of stiction. [noun: Physics: The friction that tends to prevent stationary surfaces from being set in motion.] (Something we deal with all the time in small motors that move magnetic tape.) Do y'all clean the INSIDE of each case at EACH reloading?

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #1 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 6:50pm	Print Post
	Quote: Do y'all clean the INSIDE of each case at EACH reloading? Absolutely Yes (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #2 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 7:18pm	Print Post
	John Boy - thanks! I just measured a handful of cases, Winchester and WW. About .0001 LARGER to .0003 SMALLER difference between not-cleaned then cleaned. Measurement error greater than the measureable amount of crud. (Not to say ANYTHING about the effect of crud on stiction.)

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #3 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:25pm	Print Post
	There is more to even neck tension than just simply cleaning CW. Cleaning is just one of the critical steps incuured in the art of case preperation. Spend sometime over on Benchrest Central and ask the winners over there in the Jacketed Benchrest game how they go about prepping a batch of match quality cases, it includes allot more than just the necks. I believe that you will not only find it interesting but extremely helpful in your pursuit of ultimate fixed cast bullet accuracy and most there are more than happy to share their hard earned knowledge. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #4 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 3:50am	Print Post
	John - it's been a few years since I've haunted BC - agree, good folks and knowledge. I'm just taking a slow walk through all my procedures. I have 500+ rounds of .375 Win. and sized them all, then expanded them all - just to be consistent. OK, next time I'll sort first by brand, outside neck trim and trim to length after annealing. Hadn't shot this caliber in a few years and didn't realize what I had. I have enough of the Saeco 300gr loaded to enjoy over the summer and I'll up the standards for cases next winter's loading season. Just from the handful of cases that I measured, I'm going to sort by brand THIS season - that will help some. I'm gathering parts now for building a case annealing machine. Nothing fancy, just want better consistency than burned fingers will allow. Of course I'm applying what I learn here to other calibers too - .405Win and .458WM - several rifles. It's getting warmer. Soon my attention will be on off-hand position.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Lefty38-55 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 366 Location: New England Joined: Sep 11^th, 2013	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #5 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:32am	Print Post
	Wha ..... at????? You forget to weigh/sort your cases !

	All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups ...
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #6 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 8:13am	Print Post
	Lefty38-55 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:32am: Wha ..... at????? You forget to weigh/sort your cases ! Sorting by brand I can see. Weighing - maybe 30 of 'em to see what's there. Jury is still out on doing it on a case by case basis.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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kkid65 Ex Member	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #7 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 9:22am	Print Post
	Some of the best BPCR shooters I know use .0005 neck tension and anneal ever shoot. I do know one that uses .003 and shoots with anyone. I have found that anything over about .0025 will distort my 20-1 bullets. LB


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kkid65 Ex Member	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #8 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 9:28am	Print Post
	I tried a stainless brush and mine left the case inside very rough. Did not shoot them, afraid the ldpe wad would grip and stretch or separate one. I use a bronze brush. LB


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2578 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #9 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 11:14am	Print Post
	One of the bigger problems with rimmed cartridges, at least one of my pet peeves, is inconsistent rim thickness. I've had issues with nearly every manufacturer. Very often the rim thickness will differ when measuring one piece of brass at different places on the rim. Chris.


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #10 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 6:42pm	Print Post
	Quote: Some of the best BPCR shooters I know use .0005 neck tension and anneal ever shoot. I do know one that uses .003 and shoots with anyone. I have found that anything over about .0025 will distort my 20-1 bullets. LB After cleaning my brass, I've found that most if not all the neck tension is from the lube filling the close sliding fit between the bullet and the brass. I think that's good.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #11 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 6:43pm	Print Post
	Quote: I tried a stainless brush and mine left the case inside very rough. Did not shoot them, afraid the ldpe wad would grip and stretch or separate one. I use a bronze brush. LB I did notice a few scratches. Will revert to bronze.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3983 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Neck tension and more Reply #12 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 6:44pm	Print Post
	gunlaker wrote on Mar 24^th, 2014 at 11:14am: One of the bigger problems with rimmed cartridges, at least one of my pet peeves, is inconsistent rim thickness. I've had issues with nearly every manufacturer. Very often the rim thickness will differ when measuring one piece of brass at different places on the rim. Chris. DANG~! Another variable! OK. THANKS!

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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