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Hank45
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compress black powder
Mar 16th, 2014 at 8:29am
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Do you have to compress black powder when you breech seat the bullet? Thanks for your answer
  
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westerner
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #1 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 9:06am
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Depends on the casing used. 

  Joe.
  

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boho
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #2 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 10:39am
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Breech seating with black powder for myself was a one time affair. I don't think I compressed the powder but whatever I did caused the case 38/55 to stretch over .050'' That's no BS! 
I never tried again. Steve Garbe, would be the one to talk to. Many are doing it but it is done differently than with smokeless powders.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 11:15am
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I've tried compressing and not compressing.  In the .38-55, with Starline brass the cases will stretch in my CPA rifle.  The finer the powder the greater the stretch I see it seems.  When I Switched to Goex FFFg Express, I started separating cases with or without compression.   

Fg powder seems to get rid of the stretching but you lose a fair bit of accuracy.  Interestingly though, my most accurate 200m rifle at this time uses Fg in a .38-50 Rem-Hep with a breech seated bore diameter PP bullet.  The extra case capacity gives me 59gr of Fg, no case stretching, an excellent accuracy.

In my .38-55 C. Sharps I also shoot a breech seated PP bullet but get no stretching regardless of powder, or compression used. 

There is one big difference between the chambers on my CPA and my CSA.   The CPA has a taper from case mouth to rifling, no 45 degree step at the case mouth.  My C. Sharps has a 45 degree step at the case mouth.  I wonder if this limits stretching?   

A few here have posted of using thick wall brass and wads to eliminate air space between bullet and powder.  Steve Garbe wrote of this technique in the BPCN a few years ago.  I have yet to try this.  He recommended shooting with a small amount of compression when breech seating.  If you like I can give you the issue number of the magazine article.

Chris.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 11:29am
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38/55 to stretch over .050''

There are some of our shooters with 38/55s and 38/50s that are having case stretching problems as well. 
I have been wondering if it is due to using a smaller diameter case with black powder?
Or is it due to using too much compression for these cases or from using FFFg powders in them?

None of our .40 and .45 caliber shooters are having case stretching when they compress with FFFg powders.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #5 - Mar 17th, 2014 at 12:59am
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Hank, SPG's article on breech seating with black powder was in the Summer 2008 edition of the Black Powder Cartridge News.  It's a good article, as are almost all of the ones he writes.  I'd recommend all of his magazine articles to anyone interested in maximal accuracy with black powder rifles.

Chris.
  
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bravo3
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #6 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 11:23pm
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while I currently shoot a 45-70, there is concern about keeping the inside of a case fired w/bp clean as it may on occasion cause case stretching & even case separation given the right conditions;= hard, rough bp fouling build up on interior walls. think the theory is as the charge is burning it pulls on dirty case wall
  
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MikeT
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #7 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 9:53am
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I had a case stretching problem in a 40-70SS until I quite using a 0.060 poly wad.  The brass was sparkling
new BA stretched brass.

I'm going to be working on my 38-55 brass today, so will chime back in if I am getting stretching.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #8 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 2:51pm
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I spent lots of time checking cases for stretching when breech seating/compression. Stretching is eliminated when using RMC Everlast cases. My main reason for going with those cases was having them made with small rifle primer pockets- that improved accuracy. This was in the 32/40. Using Swiss powder in the 32/40 #1 1/2. When using Win brass, minimal stretching. In my 38/55 got minimal stretching when using Win brass and Starline. Using Swiss 1 1/2 powder and .075compression, same compression in 32/40. Used a .030 veggie wad. 
The only problem I ever had on case separation was with RMC regular brass wall thickness, after loading single case 22 times case was ready to separate in 38/55.
Bob
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gunlaker
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #9 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 6:14pm
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Hi Bob,

How much case capacity do you loose with the RMC everlasting brass?

Thanks,

Chris.
  
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GWarden
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #10 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 6:53pm
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Chris
Good question, I've never checked that out with the Everlast. The small rifle primer pockets definitely made a difference for me in reducing group size. I found that the Fed. GM205M primer gave smaller groups at 100yd, at 200yd got tipping. For 200yd get best results with the Rem 7 1/2 primer
Bob
  

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Re: compress black powder
Reply #11 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 8:44pm
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Thanks Bob.

Chris.
  
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Hank45
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #12 - Mar 27th, 2014 at 6:53am
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westerner, I am using everlasting brass from RMC with small primer. Hank45
  
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.22-5-40
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #13 - Mar 27th, 2014 at 7:55pm
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I too am using RMC cases in my Ballard No. 3 .25-25 Stevens.  Due to it being a cast action, I only use Holy black...Swiss 3FG.   I was shooting fixed and attempting to reduce charge for accuracy experiments..filled excess space with COW..cases began stretching..some nearly .100 longer & had 1 seperation.  With only veg. fiber wads, and/or grease cookies there is no stretching.  I believe the fine tool marks left inside case by the lathe turning were grabbing onto the COW.   I plan on trying B.S. this season, as well as trying some Goex Olde E.
  
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westerner
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Re: compress black powder
Reply #14 - Mar 27th, 2014 at 8:25pm
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Hank45 wrote on Mar 27th, 2014 at 6:53am:
westerner, I am using everlasting brass from RMC with small primer. Hank45


That's good. 

What case?

  Joe. 
  

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