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45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question (Read 6246 times)

cat1870 Junior Member Offline Posts: 92 Location: utah Joined: Aug 7^th, 2007	45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Mar 4^th, 2014 at 3:34pm	Print Post
	Has anyone tried VarGet in their H&R trapdoor .45-70 using 405 grain bullets? If so, how did it do? Thanks, Cat
	« Last Edit: Mar 4^th, 2014 at 6:24pm by cat1870 »
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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7726 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #1 - Mar 5^th, 2014 at 6:55am	Print Post
	I use a lot of Varget in bottleneck cartridges for modern rifles. Single shots It's not what I would use. Best duplicate the Arsenal Black Powder loads. If smokless use 4759 loaded to Black powder velocity. Boats


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cat1870 Junior Member Offline Posts: 92 Location: utah Joined: Aug 7^th, 2007	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #2 - Mar 5^th, 2014 at 10:32am	Print Post
	Boats.... Usually I use Accurate's 5744 but have 6-7 lbs of VarGet so think I'll try it out... Just wondering who else may have used VarGet in their .45-70 Trap Doors. As far as 4759, do you use a Dacron filler or anything else with it? I've heard/read that some do but I'm not a fan of fillers. Although I've never tried it. Thanks, Cat

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Ray_Newman Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 274 Location: Washington State Joined: Jul 13^th, 2004	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #3 - Mar 5^th, 2014 at 12:06pm	Print Post
	Cat1870: I shoot an H&R Officer’s model. I load with a Winchester Large Rifle, 300 grain Remington JHP bought in bulk from Midway, and 25.0 grains of SR4759. Slight taper crimp as my H&R only cases are not all the same length. No filler. Very pleasant and non-tiring. Found that 25.5 grains and the 300 grain JHP start to become wearing, but then again, I only shoot from the bench at 100 yards. Depending on what you are loading for, a 405 grain bullet may/may not be necessary. Once on a whim, I loaded some 405 lead bullets and 50 grains of BP in an original Trapdoor carbine, and it was a not a pleasant round after a while....

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cat1870 Junior Member Offline Posts: 92 Location: utah Joined: Aug 7^th, 2007	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #4 - Mar 5^th, 2014 at 12:39pm	Print Post
	Ray, I'm just loading for target & steel from 100 to 500 yards... Probably I'll get to BP sometime this summer.... So far, I've had my best accuracy with a 400 grain cast bullet and that with 5744. I haven't tried SR4759 as of yet and I have 9-10 lbs of it so I might as well get with it..... Cat

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John Boy Ex Member	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #5 - Mar 5^th, 2014 at 2:54pm	Print Post
	Quote: Has anyone tried VarGet in their H&R trapdoor .45-70 using 405 grain bullets? If so, how did it do? Cat, Vargent is a much faster burning powder than the old stand by 4759. But you might want to look at the Hodgdon load database ... they have loading data for Vargent using the 405 bullet Let us know how small the groups are with the Vargent


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7726 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #6 - Mar 6^th, 2014 at 8:41am	Print Post
	With powder shortages we all have to adapt. I would look at a relitive quickness chart see were Varget falls and compare to a more common 45/70 powder. It's rate is about like 4064 Ball C or 2520 not good powders for the 45/70 (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Having said that Trapdoors are not the best guns to experiment with powder wise. Better done with a strong action. With 4759 which was designed to give BP velocity in the old cases on hand be best to use it with no wads. Not likely anything else is going to give better results. When I shot Trapdoors a lot used the 405 Gr bullet to 500 and even 1000 yards a few times all with Black Powder All other shooting, mostly at 200 was with a 330 gr copy of the Gould bullet and 4759. 330 gallery sub sonic I switched from 4759 to Unique. Again no good reason to use fillers or wads with smokless. Black powder thin wad between the powder and bullet is good Boats


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Kurt_701 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1050 Location: Missouri Joined: May 20^th, 2004	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #7 - Mar 6^th, 2014 at 12:43pm	Print Post
	If you have some 4831, you might try it in a trapdoor. There will be a lot of unburnt powder remaining. I would recommend you get a copy of Ken Water's "Pet Loads" He discusses action strenght. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) You might find it cheaper somewhere else. ALWAYS VERIFY ALL LOADING DATA , YOURSELF!!! Things can go wrong.
	« Last Edit: Mar 6^th, 2014 at 12:49pm by Kurt_701 »
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Lefty38-55 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 366 Location: New England Joined: Sep 11^th, 2013	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #8 - Mar 6^th, 2014 at 10:50pm	Print Post
	Seems like a complete WASTE of Varget to me! It particularly excels w/ 223 match loads. I know of more than a few highpower/ across the course shooters who would give a leg or their left nut for a pound of Varget ...

	All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups ...
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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7726 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #9 - Mar 7^th, 2014 at 7:50am	Print Post
	It's very sought after for 308 & 7/08 too. I have a large supply from my 7/08 Silhouette days. Using it up now in 30/30 Lever silhouette cartridges. Not optimal velocity with 170 gr jacketed but very stable temp wise. Am getting about 1900 fps out of a 24 inch barrel Marlin 36A clean burn reliable performance. Knocks over all Rams hit. It's about the last thing I would try in the 45/70 Boats


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cat1870 Junior Member Offline Posts: 92 Location: utah Joined: Aug 7^th, 2007	Re: 45-70 H&R Trap Door and VarGet powder question Reply #10 - Mar 19^th, 2014 at 2:57pm	Print Post
	Quote: Quote: Has anyone tried VarGet in their H&R trapdoor .45-70 using 405 grain bullets? If so, how did it do? Cat, Vargent is a much faster burning powder than the old stand by 4759. But you might want to look at the Hodgdon load database ... they have loading data for Vargent using the 405 bullet Let us know how small the groups are with the Vargent So far using 42 grains Varget my groups have been about 2 1/2 MOA at 200 yards. This with Saeco's #18, 405 grain mould from wheelweights and sized .001 over groove dia. No better or worse than 3031, 5744 or 4759. The one bright side was the SD was 9 for the 1st 5 shot group and 18 for the 2nd 5 shot group. Average Velocity was 1299 and 1285 using a Pact Chronograph 8 feet from the muzzle. I had to stop early as the wind was picking up pretty good from 7-8 o'clock at 15 or more MPH.. Enough to blow my chronograph over a couple of times. It was blowing even harder at the target. Cat

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