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RayH
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.32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:41am
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I have heard numerous comments regarding this chambering indicating its "loading difficulties".  It has been described as "difficult to load", and "fussy".  Could anyone elaborate? I don't understand. The brass seems to be good to go right out of the box.  Availability of cases has been no problem. Other components such as primers, powder, wad material, etc. are standard fare. If my bullets are consistently cast, weighed and lubed and my primers are carefully set and my powder is accurately measured and my wads are uniform, where's the problem? Is there a "gremlin" awaiting that I've yet to meet? Thanks.
  

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #1 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 5:09am
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Bill Crane used the 32-20 in a lowall for offhand shooting. I know he shot it for at least twenty years. Used 150 grain bullets, fixed. Never had a problem. 


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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #2 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:48am
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I have a CPA in 32/40, have used it for years- super accurate. Have three CPA's no problem with the loading from the standpoint of the rifle. 32/40 has never been a fussy cartridge for me for getting great accuracy. Breech seating in both BP and smokeless gives excellent accuracy.
Bob
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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #3 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:54am
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Oops. Sorry these old eyes thought it was the 32/40. 
Bob
  

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:59am
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Why not give Paul At CPA a call and ask him. He's a wealth of knowledge and very helpful. Also there is a few comments on the CPA web site about that cartridge. 

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 8:40am
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I've been happy with mine so far. Mine produced sub MOA groups for me from the get go. I have had moments when I thought I should have went with a 32-40. I still have plenty experimenting with different powders/primers etc. I'll be a lot happier when my group sizes are closer to 1/2 MOA. I never used a 32-40 for a comparison so I can't comment on the differences. When I reach the levels of accuracy others have obtained with this cartridge I may give the .32-40 a try. 

I attached Paul Shuttleworth's article below.

Bob
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2014 at 8:48am by rkaires »  
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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 9:11am
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All of the high-density .357 bases cases are a little more “fussy” about load variations than the higher capacity like the 32-40 and 38-55s. If you already have good load technique there should be no problem. Also when some have tried these shorter, higher density cases they stuck with the same old powders they used in their higher capacity cases and reported problems. The bottom line is that if you do your homework and have good load technique you should have no problems. 
All of the smaller cases can be a challenge to case life higher velocity loads produce sticky cases faster. Reworking the brass can make it brittle in the neck area annealing is the answer. However just like refining your loading technique, a fresh look at annealing is a must. Brass is a wonderful conductor of heat. I recommend that when annealing short brass like the CPA 32-20 or 32MS that the cases be placed on cold water with about 3/8” sticking out. Run your torch lightly over the necks. DO NOT keep it there until the case goes cherry at that you have over annealed them. Over annealing means that the softening has gone all the way down the case into the transition with the web. This allows the cases to stretch and eventually separate at the transition.

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #7 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:45am
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RayH wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:41am:
I have heard numerous comments regarding this chambering indicating its "loading difficulties".  It has been described as "difficult to load", and "fussy".  Could anyone elaborate? I don't understand. The brass seems to be good to go right out of the box.  Availability of cases has been no problem. Other components such as primers, powder, wad material, etc. are standard fare. If my bullets are consistently cast, weighed and lubed and my primers are carefully set and my powder is accurately measured and my wads are uniform, where's the problem? Is there a "gremlin" awaiting that I've yet to meet? Thanks.


Hi,

I promised some info on the .32-20 CPA and I apologize for being slow.  The "fussiness" is a combination of the things I had to do to make my .32-20 CPA rifle accurate and the corresponding wear on a case that was never meant to endure this level of abuse.

The short version is that accuracy required mv's of 1475 - 1500 fps.  Those mv's required 12.8 grains of AA 4100 held tight against the primer using a .45 caliber, single-sheet newspaper wad.  That loading caused incipient case head separation at 10-12 firings.

Starting with a new Starline case, the first three firings would not produce good accuracy.  Accuracy would be good from 4 through 8 firings and would then start to drop off.  After 10 firings the case was discarded.

All of the above precluded the use of a single case.  All shooting was with multiple cases, all cases were loaded at home, and all cases were segregated and organized by lot and by the number of times fired.  I went through 1000 plus Starline cases when the rifle was in use.

But wait, there's more.  Cases with imperfectly centered flash holes were useless and discarded up-front.  Primers were installed using a KM dial indicator priming tool.  Placing the newspaper wads required two special tools and good hand-eye coordination.   

JackHughs

 
  

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #8 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 11:47am
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I've collected all firearms in .32-20 for nearly 40 years and used it Schuetzen shooting.  Never any problems anymore than any other cartridge/case.  For schuetzen loads, usually breech seated, I've used most every possible powder but always go back to 4227.  About 10 grains is a good start.  Think about it - .32-20 is purty durn close to the .32 Miller.
  
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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #9 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 12:11pm
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I know of no one who has more experiance with the 32-20 than Jack Hughes nor do I know no one who has gotten all of the accuracy potential out of it at 200yds so he speaks the truth. The only thing I can add is I have sat next to another competitor in our group who encounter three case seperations in one practice outing and often times at least one or two and at times none. Thus it would be wise to include in your shooting kit a means to extract a seperated case as it can ruin a days practice outing and our a match. He re-chambered to 32-40 as have the others in our group as the 32-20 was quite popular here and he used a carry a small butane torch, small ladle, funnel and a small piece of CerroSafe and used it quite often. Possibly due to different weather elements out this way it could relate to the increase in the problems encountered? 

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #10 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm
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I'm another user of the 32/20 but, in my case it is with a .308 barrel. From what I've read on the forum and from talking to one other .308 barrel user, the main problem is the brass, especially the Starline brand.

I built the rifle for my wife on a 44/45 Stevens. I wanted it to be competitive but, I knew had a limit on the pressure I could run and that ment about 1300 - 1350 fps with #9 and H108. The rifle had a 11 twist so, I thought that would work out fine and it should have. I used 160 - 190 gr bullets. Two of them match bullets, a Ron Long and a NEI bullet that Merrill Martin used.

It wasn't my rifle to use in matches so, my time with it was limited, I had my own new 33 caliber to work out. 

It did show one extremely good group at 200 shot by my wife, a 1.5, five shot  group with 4 in 7/8's. The normal groups ran between 2 1/4 and 4+ inches. Cases were a problem! I'm a one case shooter, we only seperated one case but, the heads enlargered until they won't chamber and two other cases had impending seperations. I used Winchester cases and from the stories of Starline users, I think the winchesters are stronger!

The other .308 barrel user had many Starline's seperate, also. He had RMC cases made with a straight interior and at last report, they were working.

I'm not done with the 30 cal 32/20, I bought a 12 twist Douglas barrel (used and already set up) for a small thread HW for her to shoot this year so, I won't have to worry about pressure issues but, I believe pressure IS the issue in the 32/20 case in that the cases aren't made by any source to take the pressure we generate with higher SD bullets.

You guy's shooting the 32/20 need to look for Winchester cases to use or try the RMC's. Another suggestion is to try lighter bullets if you have any to see if the cases last longer.

I will try muliple cases this year and see if that improves accuracy for my wifes new rifle

I believe the reason that the Miller short isn't as troublesome is it's stronger brass
  

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #11 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:23pm
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My great regret is that we (all who have contributed to this thread) can't sit face to face for a few hours sharing our knowledge and our consideration for one another.  Many of you have helped me with questions during recent months. When this thread comes to an end, it will be copied and made part of my rifle log book. Collectively, you have clarified my questions and much more. My sincere thanks to each and every one of you. Let's all have a great year on the range! Ray Hoagland
  

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #12 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:30pm
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RayH wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:23pm:
My great regret is that we (all who have contributed to this thread) can't sit face to face for a few hours sharing our knowledge and our consideration for one another.  Many of you have helped me with questions during recent months. When this thread comes to an end, it will be copied and made part of my rifle log book. Collectively, you have clarified my questions and much more. My sincere thanks to each and every one of you. Let's all have a great year on the range! Ray Hoagland


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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #13 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 6:44pm
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You are very welcome Roy.

Frank I had a 32Miller Short and I also had problems with sticking cases so it lived a very short life in my hands and was sold to another poor soul who thought it would be his cats meow.

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Re: .32-20 CPA loading difficulty
Reply #14 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:48pm
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John,
Your using a very simular case now, in your 28, is it sticking? Most of the Millers stick because the rear portion of the chamber is to small a reamer design problem.

I got a PM from someone stating that he thought that my loading of the 32/20 was to hot for a 44 so, I'm going to clearify why I did so, I would not recommend it for the standard action. The standard action is excepted for 25/20ss and the 32/20 has a 9% larger case head and 9% more breech thrust pressure for the same breech pressure.

First the action is a 32/40 action with a hammer block breech system that I think is worth a extra 30% in strength, (base on the realitive size of the breech block and hammer screw size) as part of the breech block thrust is taken by the hammer screw. It has a modern barrel and radial pressure isn't a issue.

Next I ran Quickload for for pressures based on the fastest powder being AA#9 (I also used 4227 & Ramshot) and used 25% less thrust as the BP 32/40 pressures  would generate using the molds that I have on hand. I also limited my chonographed velocity to that pressure. So basically the powder charge limit, was set when #9 reached 1350 fps with my 190 gr bore riding bullet.

I DID NOT chamber it on a hunch that it might be ok. I did my research. It's had about 1000+ rounds through it and there are no signs of wear in the breeck block. 

Frank
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2014 at 8:06pm by frnkeore »  

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